Groupie Normandie on 17Oct44

[ZhekaB]

Hello, Courtois!
Your hypothesis is quite realistic. But its weak point is time and altitude. According to the 303rd IAD's sortie log, Albert's group took off 09:15, returned 09:57; Puyad's group: 09:15-10:02; Matras's group 09:35-10:05. I don't know exactly which group Emone was in, but he was probably shot down around 09:45-09:50. In addition, the height of the Jahnke victory is 500m, while his group was escorting Pe-2 at 3000 m. But again, theoretically it could have been Jahnke.
Another interesting point: according to T. Wood's list this victory was won by Walter Jahnke, while in B. Barbas’s book it is recorded for Ofhr. Windisch. I am very curious as to how accurately the data in the T. Wood lists is recognized (from handwrited or typed records??)? My opinion there may be a lot errors in the time, squares, heights data.

By the way, I just had an article about circumstances, in which A.Hafner was killed on 17 Oct 1944:
https://warspot.ru/12325-posledniy-den-antona-hafnera
Maybe you’ll find it interesting...

[Courtois Laurent]

Originally Posted by ZhekaB

Hello, Courtois!
Your hypothesis is quite realistic. But its weak point is time and altitude. According to the 303rd IAD's sortie log, Albert's group took off 09:15, returned 09:57; Puyad's group: 09:15-10:02; Matras's group 09:35-10:05. I don't know exactly which group Emone was in, but he was probably shot down around 09:45-09:50. In addition, the height of the Jahnke victory is 500m, while his group was escorting Pe-2 at 3000 m. But again, theoretically it could have been Jahnke.
Another interesting point: according to T. Wood's list this victory was won by Walter Jahnke, while in B. Barbas’s book it is recorded for Ofhr. Windisch. I am very curious as to how accurately the data in the T. Wood lists is recognized (from handwrited or typed records??)? My opinion there may be a lot errors in the time, squares, heights data.

By the way, I just had an article about circumstances, in which A.Hafner was killed on 17 Oct 1944:
https://warspot.ru/12325-posledniy-den-antona-hafnera
Maybe you’ll find it interesting...

Hello ZhekaB,


All, my apologies for the delay, but I am currently writing an atlas of Normandy-Niemen and I force myself to read all the reports of the Soviet ground and air units which takes me away from the forums.

I am currently working on the Gumbinnen Offensive, and clarification on the daily counts of German planes by the ground troops.

Regarding Emonet, in the 303 IAD flight log: (Журнал боевых вылетов частей 303 иад). It was noted that 10 Yak-3 under the orders of Commander Pouyade took off at 9.23 am and that 9 planes landed at 10.00 am. (Emonet not returned).

What makes for the Germans taking into account the time difference: 7:23 a.m. to 8:00 a.m.

Indeed the Jancke Hypothesis is not very good.

We must therefore return to the hypothesis;

17.10.44 Ofhr. Ludwig Strobel 9./JG 51 Yak-9 £ 25 623: at 1,500 m. 07.40 Film C. 2032 / I Anerk: Nr. -

Greetings and happy holidays to all.


PS: if you wish, I will post on the gumbinen offensive with all the Soviet reports, my maps and my statistics.