Photos Beuteflugzeuge

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by musec04

Hi Stig,

Just a couple of thoughts, the markings on the tail could be those used by the Aviacion Republicana. Having said that, both individuals behind the wing - the guy in the black uniform and the one with the arm band do look as though they'd fit in the Third Reich. I don't know much about Spanish uniforms of the thirties though.

Regards,
Clint

I agree with your points and said so to Malcolm.
Sorry to say, I am not one bit interested in uniforms and things like that, but I guess I have a general idea
"what they are supposed to look like".
But Spain in the 1930s?.....
Can only agree with you, my first impression was also Germany, so could a DH 84 have landed on a German
controlled airfield in Spain?

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


I think we both really need an image manipulation expert.


I'm not going to rule anything out,and clearly arguing against an expert on the DH.84 would be delusional on my part.


As for the uniforms,to me they are party not armed force uniforms.I can't see German party formations being present in Spain.


Just as a thought, do you recognise the aircraft in the third photo. I don't.Is it something that would/would not be seen in either Spain or Germany.


It seems significant to me that the Air Britain lists on the web don't have a German registration for this aircraft,but neither is it said to have been destroyed.


As I said we need help enhancing the photo. Failing that, either another photo showing a German DH.84 or a Flugbuch entry.


Well one can always hope.


Regards,


Clint

[Merlin]

post #57
The aircraft clearly shows a British registration G-????. It looks to me, that the photo was taken during a visit to Germany or during one of the flying competions as an escort plane for a British team.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Merlin

post #57
The aircraft clearly shows a British registration G-????. It looks to me, that the photo was taken during a visit to Germany or during one of the flying competions as an escort plane for a British team.

Interesting thought Gerhard
However, I cannot see the "clearly" indicated 'G' anywhere I'm afraid.
Neither can I locate a single DH 84 wearing such a thick fin stripe as displayed here.
The Austrian one did - in a way - since it had red-white-red stripes painted on its fin. Easily overpainted after
'Anschluss' 1938.
Also Spanish aircraft did.
Unfortunately I don't have such detailed histories of the DH 84 used as an "escort plane" into Germany.
Perhaps you can elaborate on that?
It certainly would explain the clothing visible in the photo...
Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Hi Stig,


There is definitely a G- visible on the third photo.That's the one Gerhard is referring to. Also the guy with his back to the camera again looks as though he wears the uniform of a NSDAP party organisation.


Regards,


Clint

[Stig Jarlevik]

Ahhh OK, sorry

That is a DH 60 Moth of some kind (inverted engine)
Can we be certain they were all taken at the same time?

Cheers
Stig

[musec04]

Stig,


No, I don't think we can.But the uniforms in both photos and,come to think of it,the fact the seller is based in Germany are I would suggest further circumstantial evidence towards the photo being taken somewhere in the Reich in its post 12 March 1938 borders and that we are in fact looking at the ex-Austrian machine.One of the things that does concern me,is why is it not bearing a Hakenkreuz on the tail?


If anyone has anything further, I am still interested also in my original question,is there any evidence for use by the Luftwaffe of this machine? Any records of it still being on hand post September 1939?



Regards,


Clint

[Maciej Góralczyk]

Not much better, but I think that the first word is 'The'.

[Tom Willis]

I agree with Gerhard
Clearly pre-war German uniforms and would tend to suggest a competition/visit of some kind. Does not indicate to me that this is either Austrian or a captured aircraft

[Huib Ottens]

Hi,

This photo intrigued me. In my opinion it shows a long name and that might give a clue regarding its identity.
I checked the excellent Air-Britain DH.84 production log and found only one DH.84 with a long name that resembles the name on the image:

"The Leicestershire Vixen" (also known as the "The Leicestershire Vixen II")

The information from the log reads:

"6019
(Gipsy Major #5168/5169) Regd G-ACEK[CofR 4216] 2.5.33 to William Lindsay Everard MP, Ratcliffe Hall, Leicester; known as"The Leicestershire Vixen II" [but painted simply as “The Leicestershire Vixen”].CofA 3890 issued 11.5.33.Regd [CofR 7143] 23.6.36 to Olley Air Service Ltd, Croydon; probably operated by associate Channel Air Ferries, Shoreham.Sold 8.36 and regd [CofR 7316] 3.9.36 to Cecil Herbert Stave [believed pseudonym for Leonard H Stace of Air Commerce], Croydon. Regn cld 3Q.36 as sold abroad.Sold 9.36 to Union Founders Trust Ltd and on to Federation Populaire des Sports Aeronautiques, Paris (for Spanish Republicans). Sold 19.10.36 to M Joseph Hermann, Paris on behalf of Compagnie Air Taxi, Vienna (a fictitious company). Detained at Croydon to prevent export to Spain. RegdG-ACEK[CofR 7549] 15.12.36 to Union Founders Trust Ltd, Croydon. Sold 26.1.37 to Air Dispatch Ltd, Croydon and regd [CofR 7733] 5.3.37 to (finance company) Mutual Finance Ltd; operated by Air Dispatch/Commercial Air Hire, Croydon. Regd [CofR 8410] 23.3.38 to [associate] Advance Air Lines Ltd, roydon.Regd [CofR8470] 23.4.38 to [associate] Anglo-European Airways Ltd, Croydon.Cld 1.5.39; delivered 8.39 & regd 22.1.40 to [associate]Commercial Air Hire Ltd, Cardiff.Regn cld 21.7.40 as sold.Impressed 21.7.40 asAX867and delivered same day to RAF Ringway.To 7 AACU, Castle Bromwich 23.8.40 and on to DH Witney same day for repair.Returned to Ringway 8.9.40 and although allotted to 110 (AAC) Wing, Ringway, it returned to 7 AACU.To DH Witney for major inspection 15.7.41 and soc for spares 21.7.41.

As you can see there is an Austrian connection in the log, but that doesn't explain the scene on the photo.

I couldn't find a photo of this specific aircraft, but there is a photo of an old model of the aircraft which shows the name in the same curly letters, in the same place and also shows the broad tailband. The models shows the name as "The Leicestershire Vixen II" so perhaps the name was carried as well. The photo doesn't seem to show the additional "II"?


Just my two eurocents...