Two He 111s of KG 27 Lost 13 August 1940

[Peter Cook]

Can anyone shed any light on the loss of two He 111s of III./KG 27 on 13 August. Although the Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung lists a number of operations flown by KG 27 on this date it records no Heinkel losses. Several sources, including Mason and Parry in the BoB Combat Archive link the first loss below to the series of attacks that took place between Midhurst and Arundel from 06.50-07.20 (Parry's times) which coincides with a large raid by the Ju 88s of KG 54. Several RAF pilots of 43 Squadron claimed He 111s during this combat. The only mention of Heinkels in the Luftflotte 3 Einzelmeldung is in the following "20 Ju 88 of I./K.G.54 (Airborne 06.00 – 06.20 hours) and 16 Ju 88 of II./K.G.54 (Airborne 06.05 – 06.35 hours). Plus 2 He 111 started as sea rescue aircraft." It is unclear if these two He 111s were part of KG 54 – could they have been from KG 27?

The losses are described by Waiss and Balss as:

Waiss - Chronik Kampfgeschwader Nr. 27 Boelcke - Pg. 201
He 111P, 7./KG27, Call Sign 1G+, Total loss, Crash site - Channel - Purpose - Enemy flight Cause: Crashed into the sea 60 km north of Cherbourg after an air battle, the FF was rescued by the Seenotdienst - Ofw. Weber, Theodor killed (01.05.1912), Ogefr. Eggers, Heinz killed (05.08.1917), Ogefr Klemm Heinz killed (22.12.1919).

Balss - Luftwaffe Losses & Claims - Vol. 3 Pg. 241
9./KG 27 - OP - Kanal - Take off Rennes - Near Rambervillers - Crashed due damaged by enemy fighter He 111 P 1G+HT - 100% damage - P Uffz. Herbert Schmidt KIA, 4 crew safe.

[robert]

Two He 111s of 7./KG27 were sent off to fly so called air rescue mission to keep an eye on ditching Luftwaffe aircraft (in the time of the attacks flown of KG54 and StG77) and one of these planes was set upon by RAF fighters and shot down.

Regards

Robert

[Stig Jarlevik]

Robert's details sound OK to me.
They correspond to previous data and what Waiss says.

Don't know from where Balss has picked his data, but I find it interesting he has located another "Schmidt"
(see your previous KG 54 requests)

Since it is a bit unclear from your initial request (and I have none of the sources you list), I presume Waiss
only list one of your stated "two" losses while Balss also only state one of those two. Since they differ
you have added them together and created two losses.
Is that presumption correct?

Cheers
Stig

[Peter Cook]

Stig,

Your assumptions are correct, the Waiss claim is listed by a total of five sources: Mason (Battle Over Britain), Cornwell (BoB Then and Now), Parry (BoB Combat Archive), plus Balss and Waiss.

The second loss is only listed by Balss.

I agree with Robert's deductions re. the first loss.

Peter

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by Peter Cook

Stig,

Your assumptions are correct, the Waiss claim is listed by a total of five sources: Mason (Battle Over Britain), Cornwell (BoB Then and Now), Parry (BoB Combat Archive), plus Balss and Waiss.

The second loss is only listed by Balss.

I agree with Robert's deductions re. the first loss.

Peter

Thanks Peter
So not quite correct in my assumptions. Balss is thus the only one to quote two losses for KG 27 that day.
Anyone else who can understand from where he has got his data??
Cheers
Stig

[robert]

Balss is incorrect. No operations had been flown by 9./KG27 on 13.8.40.
8./KG27 conducted a dusk mission over England and 7./KG27 was engaged in these air sea rescue sorties.

[Peter Cook]

Thanks Robert,

I had assumed as much, thanks for confirming.

Peter

[Stig Jarlevik]

Never the less it would be interesting to find out from where Balss has got his information.

Can't believe he just made up the details he quote.

Cheers
Stig

[ARADO001]

Hello. I believe the He 111 of 9./KG 27 mentioned by Balls is most probably the He 111 P, G1 + HT of 9./KG 55 lost on 12.08.40.
FF Uffz. Schmidt, Herbert (19.10.1914, Hannover, EM: ?) killed
BO Uffz. Held, Ernst Siegfried (08.02.1914, Derne, b. Dortmund, 58221/3) killed
BF Uffz. Bubel, Richard (23.03.1918, Bierbach, 58246/310) wounded
BM Fw. Paulussen, Fitz (° ?, 58246/328) wounded.
F: GB, Bristol. Both engines damaged during attack by RAF fighters. Crashed and burned out near Mainbervilliers, S of Melun, FR during the return flight.
- The body of the FF was found on 17.11.40. Buried at Versailles: E-8. The BO initially buried at Fontainebleau: grave 56. Reinterred at Fort-de-Malmaison: 6-32-1441.
Sources: BoB, VDK, Fold3 etc.

Regards,
Patrick

[Peter Cook]

I agree Patrick, but what is strange is that Balss also lists the 12 August He 111 as:

Balss - Luftwaffe Losses & Claims - Vol. 3 Pg. 227
9./KG 55 - OP - Frankreich
Take off Villacoublay - Rambervilliers, 15 km west northwest of St.Die (Vosges) - Damaged by enemy fighters, on flight return both engines failed, crashed, impact fire
He 111 P G1+HT - 100% damage
P Uffz. Herbert Schmidt KIA, B Uffz. Siegfried Held MIA, Bf Uffz. Richard Bubel FSA/WIA/POW, Bs Fw. Fritz Paulussen FSA/WIA/POW

A curious piece of repetition, only one day apart, and with the 13 August Heinkel as 1G+HT versus G1+HT!

Peter