Luftwaffe fighter losses in Tunisia

[Six Nifty .50s]

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

I did. Didn't I? II./StG 3 and III./StG 3 flew successful operations against the Allied positions throughout January 1943 wihout more than two Ju 87s being registered as lost due to enemy fighters. (Another four Ju 87s were registered lost due to 'Feindbeschuss' or unknown reasons.) There were no other losses registered by any Stukageschwader in the whole Mediterranean area in January 1943. (Source: Daily reports to Generalquartiermeister der Luftwaffe.)

SixNifty's mere guess about Stukas and ground attack aircraft mainly grounded due to fuel shortage in Tunisia in January 1943 can't be accepted since it seems not to be based on any facts at all. SixNifty, how would it be if you based your assumptions on facts instead of mere guesses?

What guesses?

" As of today we have a total of 76 cubic metres of petrol available in this theatre of operations. Despite extreme economy measures, our rapidly decreasing supply of fuel is no longer sufficient to permit adequate reconnaissance activity, the necessary fighter escort duty, or the occasional committment of fighter-bomber aircraft. Our present supply must be kept in reserve in order to avoid development of a serious crisis... We have had to curtail drastically the employment of dive-bombers because of their relatively high petrol consumption "
Fliegerfuhrer Afrika to C-in-C South, August 1st, 1942

" The fuel situation of German units makes any mobile operations, in particular counterattacks by our panzer formations, more or less impossible. The fuel at present with the troops is just enough to carry out the first stage of the withdrawl as ordered, namely as far as the area Agheila - El Mugtaa "
Day report by Panzerarmee, December 12th, 1942

Quoted from opening page of JAGDWAFFE: The Mediterranean, 1942-1943 by Jean Louis Roba & Martin Pegg.

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

And please, SixNifty, save us from totally unfounded implications that serious researchers are deliberately trying to falsify history. In any case, I can find nothing which supports his guesswork

Are you suggesting that German officers lied about the fuel shortages?

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

I started this thread, and the subject for this study is supremacy in air combat - because of a doscussion in another thread, where I said that the Luftwaffe Òsuper veteranÓ fighter pilots inflicted very heavy losses on the Allies in Tunisia, and this was doubted. In that perspective, losses by Stukas etc are relevant only afar as they show how effectively the German fighter pilots managed to cover the Stukas etc. The German fighter pilots definitely managed to protect their Stukas from Allied fighter attacks in January 1943 - which is more than one can say about the numerically superior Allied fighters.

Could it be that German losses were limited because their aviation fuel was limited?

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

III./SKG 10 flew fighter-bomber missions thoughout January 1943, without losing more than a single aircraft to Allied fighter interception. (Arthy & Jessen, ÒFw 190 in North AfricaÓ, pp. 153 - 154.)

III./ZG 1 sustained no losses at all to hostile activity, not even a damaged plane. (Source: Daily reports to Generalquartiermeister der Luftwaffe.)

I./SchG 2 reported four Bf 109s destroyed or damaged due to hostile action through January 1943. (Source: Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen.)

I./NJG 2 reported two aircraft damaged in accidents, and not other losses, in the Mediterranean area in January 1943. (Rškker ÒÓChronik I./NJG 2Ó, p. 221.)

Thank you for the clarification. Any losses of Me 110s from the ZGs?

In the last message I forgot to mention that II./SchlG 2 and III./ZG 2 were also equipped with Fw 190s, but I'm not sure exactly when they received them. (See Roba & Pegg p. 156, 187).

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

SchG 2 registered no more than a single Hs 129 damaged due to hostile activity in the Mediterranean through January 1943. (Source: Pegg, ÒHs 129Ó, p. 319.)

Possibly true. I read the following from John Weal, Luftwaffe Schlachtgruppen, p.59-60:

"4.(Pz)/SchlG 2 was initially equipped with a dozen of the twin-engined Henschels. But by the time the Staffel, commanded by Hauptmann Bruno Meyer, arrived at El Adem, south of Tobruk, on 7 November, this number had shrunk to eight, only four of which were servicable! The Hs 129s nevertheless claimed a dozen British tanks knocked-out during their first reported action just one week later.

However, not renowned for their reliability at the best of times, the mixing of the Hs 129s Gmome-Rhone engines with Libya's all-prevailing dust and sand was a certain recipe for disaster. After only a few more operations, during which two machines were lost when forced to land behind enemy lines, the Staffel was withdrawn to Tripoli. Here, attempts were made to produce a satisfactory sand filter for the recalcitrant powerplants, but without much success. And, when the advancing 8th Army entered the Libyan capital on 23 January 1943, the remaining unservicable Henschels were reportedly destroyed and the Staffel was evacuated to Bari, in Italy, for re-equipment "

To be fair, a lack of satisfactory air filtering was a common problem on both sides. Ingestion of excess dust and sand reduced the life of otherwise reliable Allison engines in P-40 and A-36 ground attack aircraft.

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

Read through Arthy's and Jessens's very detailed "Fw 190 in North Africa", and it describes a quite hectic activity by the Schlachtflieger. The same regarding the Stukas due to documents from StG 3. What does Shores's "Air Combat over Tunisia" say? IIRC, according to that study, the Luftwaffe Stukas and ground-attack aircraft were in full action throughout January 1943.

Did they write that, or did you? Tell us how many sorties were flown in January 1943, by SGs, KGs and Stukas in the Med Theatre.

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

And please, SixNifty, save us from totally unfounded implications that serious researchers are deliberately trying to falsify history. That will only bring down your own credibility. Maybe SixNifty is a troll who is only trying to provoke me

The German supply shortage has been common knowledge for decades. Only a troll would challenge it.

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

Why this unpleasant tone? And above all - calm down, Six Nifty. This is just a hobby, and we should all be friendly to each other. After all, he gave us no loss facts at all, he only was rude and provocative. I am giving facts supported by source references.

Moderators - keep an eye open now!

Christer, I'm not impressed with your special pleading. After reading your posts, I cannot say that your approach to sharing information is friendly or polite.

You get excited and try to project that behavior onto others. At times, you've displayed an unbending conviction about statistics and numbers extracted or cobbled together from many works cited. Later, you claimed to be nothing more than a hobbyist, suggesting that you are not very serious about researching your subject matter. I wish you would make up your mind.

It's fine with me if you insist on annotating every number with sources. But like the rest of us, you are selective about it. I realize that no individual has instant access to all data, but I think you are ignoring information that conflicts with your ideas. Certain numbers quoted from selected reports might be fact, but not necessarily your conclusions about them.

Originally Posted by Christer Bergström

Please confine yourself to giving facts backed up by source references, or asking questions.

Thanks for the tip.

Yours in accuracy,
Six Nifty .50s