Hungarian Messerschmitt, Me or Bf

[Peter Kassak]

HI Guys,

I have a dilema,
I am used to use shortcut for HUngarian build Messerschmitt 109 as Me 109, and all other used by Luftwaffe or in Germany/Reich build messerschmitts 109 shortcut Bf 109...
Is it correct to have HUngarian plnes marked as Me 109? Or shall I use also for those Bf 109???
Thanks

Peter

[George Hopp]

Both names are accurate! Probably Me 109 would be easier to recognize, but Bf 109 is also accurate.

[Kurfürst]

I reviewed an old publication on Bf 109 production in MWG factories, and the references show the situation is rather simliar to the German, ie. both designations used, altough Hungarian sources seem to prefer the Bf designation.

If you happen to read Hungarian, here is it :

(Az RLM átirata szerint a német Messerschmitt 1938. októbere után tervezett gépeinél a Bf jelzés helyett a Me jelölést kellett használni, mivel a gyár bekebelezte a Bayerische Flugzeugwerke AG-t, és Messerschmitt AG néven működött tovább. Az újabb típusok számait is eszerint adták ki. Ennek ellenére a hivatalos iratok nagy részében és a magyar felderítő iratanyagban a levelezés 1941–43-ban is Bf jellel folyt. A jelen tanulmány a fellelhető iratanyagra épül, így a megnevezéseket, a korabeli terminológiát és mértékegységeket változatlanul hagytuk.)

Ie.

'As per the RLM's transcript on planes designed by the German Messerschmitt the ME designation were to be used instead of the BF designation, as the factory overtook the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke AG and continued to operate as Messerschmitt AG after October 1938. The newer type's designations were given out accordingly. Despite that, in a large amount of official papers and also in the Hungarian intelligence papers the correspondence continued using the BF designation in 1941-1943. As this study is based on the findable (eng?) contemporary materials , hence the designations, contemporary terminology and measurement units were left unchanged.'

(ie. he was using Bf 109 in the article)

Source :

path = document.title; //"1993-2003^1997. OKTÓBER–DECEMBER XXXI. ÉVFOLYAM^HADITECHNIKA-TÖRTÉNET^Winkler László: Repülőgépgyártás a győri MWG. Rt. üzemeiben II. rész"; re = //; path=newstr.replace(re, ">"); re = / \^ /g; newstr=path.replace(re, " / "); path = newstr; tomb = path.split("^"); a = tomb.slice(1,tomb.length-1); tomb = a; path = tomb.join(' · / · '); document.write(''+path+"
\n"); 1997. OKTÓBER–DECEMBER XXXI. ÉVFOLYAM · / · HADITECHNIKA-TÖRTÉNET

71. Winkler László: Repülőgépgyártás a győri MWG. Rt. üzemeiben II. rész

[Peter Kassak]

Thanks!!!

[Csaba B. Stenge]

Peterka,

Both are correct (cus both were used), I used in my aces book the Bf 109 designation.

See ya,

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by bioteror

Is it correct to have HUngarian plnes marked as Me 109? Or shall I use also for those Bf 109???

Hello Peter,

Nice to 'see' you again.

As the previous posters have stated, although both forms were generally used, I also suggest you to stick to the original RLM designation, namely Bf 109, or 8-109, if you want to be technical

[Franek Grabowski]

Denes
Can you provide a document stating designation Me 109 is incorrect?

[George Hopp]

As the previous posters have stated, although both forms were generally used, I also suggest you to stick to the original RLM designation, namely Bf 109, or 8-109, if you want to be technical.

Denes
Can you provide a document stating designation Me 109 is incorrect?

IMHO, Denes never said that the Me 109 designation was incorrect. We all know that both designations were widely used, but that the RLM used the Bf 109 designation, and supposedly it was the group to provide the politically correct decision on matters like this.

[Franek Grabowski]

Well, I expect an RLM document stating that Bf prefix should be used instead of Me in case of 8-109 and 8-110 aircraft, etc. Otherwise I see no reason to consider Bf a more official designation rather than Me.

[ArtieBob]

Dear Franek,

Essentially all manuals, production records, loss records and Fb. use the Bf prefix for both the 109 and 110. In minutes of RLM meetings, the Bf and 8 are almost always used (I cannot remember an exception, but there are probably some). Where the Me designation was used was in propaganda releases and in some Messerschmitt internal documents. Pilots apparently refered to the 109s as "Emmees" but looking through Fb the Bf prefix was used. As Bf was the official prefix until the reorganization the late 1930s all designs recognized by the RLM until that time were identified using the Bf prefix, including the Bf 161, 162, 163. Since that was the original official prefix, there was no need for any RLM document to further confirm the designation. Such a document would probably be needed only if the designation were changed, which it was not. I have documents both RLM and LW up to the last weeks of the war showing the Bf prefix only, with the Me designation in the same documents being used for the 262, 410, etc.
If one is dealing with the war from the allied sde, most GB and USA documents use Me 109, so if you are writing or talking from that viewpoint, it is correct from the standpoint that was the common usage.

So, don't "expect an RLM document stating that Bf prefix should be used instead of Me" but in relation to the official documents of the RLM and LW, Bf is definitely the most common usage.

Best Regards,

Artie Bob