Dresden casualties and an Atom bomb target?

[Jon]

Just finished reading Frederick Taylors superb book "Dresden"
I am still puzzled though, since the end of the Cold War we now have many more details on the raid and the book indicates caualties between 25,000 and 200,000+. I have always though the human losses were about the 40,000 region...do we now have true figures?
The book also claims that it was the target city for the Atom Bomb if the war in Europe had continued, do we know if this is true and how close it came to getting a green light, i appreciate the Atom bomb was not ready until 1945.
Certainly loooks to have been a well planned and carried out raid demonstrating to the approaching Russians what RAF bomber command was capable of of doing to a single city in one night.

[Ruy Horta]

It may very well have been the culmination of a (runaway) process.

You can't expect a weapon as Bomber Command to simply stop a strategy even when such a strategy is little more than kicking a dead horse.

Dresden was a virgin target in a target poor enviorment, that alone was sufficient reason to stage a late war raid. Bomber Command leadership being dedicated to following its main strategy to the end.

A more tactical deployment would probably have saved more allied lives in the end, but that would not have found favor with the air minded strategist at all.

If anything these late war bombings were a demonstration to the own team, to guarantee a strong position in the post war armed forces. The strategic airmen were bombing the hell out of Germany in 1945 to show that their's was the war winning arm.

[Jon]

Hello Ruy,
I agree totally that the raid from a war winning aim was pointless, however i think it was more aimed at stopping the war running over against the Soviets after the soon to be German surrender. From a bombing point of view the raid is fascinating, it was only one in a long run of RAF city busting raids but, unfortunatley for the Dresdeners it all came together with ideal weather conditions on that night.
I still would like to know the new ideas on losses in the city

[FalkeEins]

.. what is the point of this thread ...aside from inviting an almighty row..if you've read Taylor's book then you're not going to get any 'fresh' arguments here...

[Jon]

Why am i inviting a row? who is after an argument?
I have asked several legitimate questions that the book did not answer fully and i was wondering if any members on here had new information as the network of people and knowledge through this site is vast.
If you feel their is no point to this thread then can i suggest you do not answer it.
Regards
Jon

[Laurent Rizzotti]

I don't think something like true figures will ever be determined for the Dresden bombing. Hundred of thousands of people (mostly German refugees, but also soldiers, Allied POWs, forced workers, concentration camps prisoners... in 1945 more than 10% of people in Germany weren't German, and their fate is even less recorded than Germans) disapperead in the late month of war, and it will be impossible to find most of them, so allowing any people with an idea behind their mind to give any number about the "body count" in Dresden.

It seems to me that 35 000 dead is now the casualty figure accepted by the most of the "serious" German historians as the most probable.

By the way, most raids in 1945 in Eastern Germany had seen for long the numbers of dead artificially inflated by Soviet or communists, that counted with the raid casualties people that died in the ground battle when Red Army invaded the area. For example, Postdam in April 1945 where the raid casualty figure was reduced from 5000 to 1500. Another example is the USAAF raid on Berlin in early February 1945, often cited as having done 25000 dead and that probably did only 10% of this number.

[Jon]

Hi Laurent
Thanks for this answer, much appreciated.

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Laurent Rizzotti

By the way, most raids in 1945 in Eastern Germany had seen for long the numbers of dead artificially inflated by Soviet or communists, that counted with the raid casualties people that died in the ground battle when Red Army invaded the area. For example, Postdam in April 1945 where the raid casualty figure was reduced from 5000 to 1500. Another example is the USAAF raid on Berlin in early February 1945, often cited as having done 25000 dead and that probably did only 10% of this number.

Indeed, and the same occured with other losses, eg. Soviets claimed 4,5 million people killed in Auschwitz-Birkenau. This propaganda figure was only quite recently reduced to confirmed and much more realistic about 1,5 million. The others did it as well, eg. Germans exagerrated number of bodies found at Katyn (actually 'overclaimed bodies' were at another locations and recovered only a few years ago), another accepted number being I believe 2 millions expulsed Germans, the number coming from Churchill's speach.
The one must take any such numbers with extreme caution.

[edwest]

These are legitimate questions and I am puzzled at the insistence of some to prohibit or even question the motives of anyone asking. This type of fire bombing was given as retaliation against the V-1 bombing against England. And yes, the number of dead in various cases were inflated or deflated for propaganda purposes during and after the war. V-2 strikes were initially blamed on gas main explosions in England to help avoid panic.

It is unclear if Dresden was an atom bomb target. The Americans received unexploded V-1s and parts from the British, produced a copy they called the "Loon," and were planning on launching them against the Germans but the end of the war in Europe came first.


Ed

[Klaus Schiffler]

The final report of the Höhere SS and Polizeiführer dated 22 March 1945 gives the following statistics:

13,441 dwellings destroyed;
202,041 dead recovered, mostly women and children.

The report also states that the final total of deceased would amount to around 250,00 since many had been totally incinerated.

Only about 30% of the dead could be identified.

The claim of the East German Communist governtment after the war of 35,000 is a fairy tale. Since Stalin had requested Churchill to bomb Dresden, the communists tried to minimize the atrocity.

Source: Luftwaffe '45 by Manfred Griehl