Martin 167 A3

[Stig Jarlevik]

Well George

By French way of seeing things, you may well be correct in stating each unit disbanded and
then reformed. However with the knowledge about the importance of tradition in France all these
units used the same symbol and while I am not promising to eat my hat if I use the wrong terminology
here, each unit certainly traced itself back to the original 5B2 via 3B2, 3B, 3RB and finally 3F.
So perhaps re-designation is not the correct word, but I can't come up with something better.

Cheers
Stig

[twocee]

Well Stig, your French may be better than mine, so here is what our friend Jean-Pierre actually said:

"Apres la dissolution des escadrilles 2B et 3B a la mi-Avril 1944, les equipages de ces deux formations sont regroupes a....Agadir. Ils constituent alors la 3 flotilla de bombardment."

"Les escadrilles 6B and 7B, dissoutes depuis Juin 1943, renaissent sur la base d'Agadir le 6 Mai 1944 au sein de la 4FB".

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by twocee

Well Stig, your French may be better than mine, so here is what our friend Jean-Pierre actually said:

"Apres la dissolution des escadrilles 2B et 3B a la mi-Avril 1944, les equipages de ces deux formations sont regroupes a....Agadir. Ils constituent alors la 3 flotilla de bombardment."

"Les escadrilles 6B and 7B, dissoutes depuis Juin 1943, renaissent sur la base d'Agadir le 6 Mai 1944 au sein de la 4FB".

Indeed George
3 Flotilla de Bombardment (3FB)

All I can say is that the units which used this motive were
5B2 formed at Cuers in Jan 1925 > Morocco > disbanded June 1927
3B2 formed at Berre in April 1928 > 3B in Oct 1938 > disbanded April 1944
3FB formed at Agadir May 1944 > 3F Jan 1946

Source Ardhan publication Les Insignes des Formation de 'Aeronautique Navale.

2B used the motive of a Gazelle's head which is not present anywhere with 3F as far as I can see.
I know it was connected to 3FB since they both used the Martin 167, but I have no information
it actually became a part of it.
Not impossible, since it was disbanded 21 April 1944.
This Gazelle's head was later used by 11F when it formed in July 1952.

No idea how accurate this site is, but it also mentions the formation of 3F in Jan 1946.
http://www.wings-aviation.ch/33-Aero...lottile-03.htm

Cheers
Stig

[Faenor]

Hi all, there is the link with some of the photos of same type of plane:
http://modelari.org/viewtopic.php?t=208&start=10

this one
http://modelari.org/download/file.ph...1138&mode=view
http://modelari.org/download/file.ph...1139&mode=view

Page 2 - post from 22 bře 2015, 09:54, there are 2 photos of plane with white number 5 - no red/yellow stripes but white stripe on fuselage (another marking of Vichy plane) - is it plane from same unit?

Thank you

Faenor

[twocee]

Stig,

I asked J-P DuBois about 3B and 3FB and this is what he said:

"Pre-war, and up to Nov. 1942 actually (remember there were Vichy France units still operational in North Africa up to Operation Torch), naval aviation units were usually divided into smaller units called “escadrilles”
After the French defeat in June 1940, Free French/Fighting French aviation units were in contact (if not within) British or American units which were not split into smaller units (let’s forget about “flights”, just an easy way to have smaller parts of the squadron, but without a real CO…).

The U.S. agreed to create

One French naval flying boat squadron, flottille 8 F.E., flying the PBY-5A.
Two French naval “light bombers” units with shipboard SBDs. They became flottilles 3 F.B. and 4 F.B. respectively.

Some people, members of the old guard no doubt, may have suggested that each flottille should then be divided into two escadrilles, as it was customary pre-war.

Since former Vichy personnel of the former Martin 167F-equipped 2B and 3B, disbanded units, became available to fly or maintain the SBDs, they found it nice to state that 3 F.B. “went back” (in tradition only) to the disbanded escadrilles, but thinking it over, the 3rd flottille de bombardment (3FB) flying the SBDs was strictly a brand-new squadron, equipped with brand-new American types, and trained by American instructors.

As French rearmament developed, French naval aviation squadrons now strictly under anglo-saxon military tradition (PBYs and SBDs from the U.S., Wellingtons, Sunderlands and Walruses from the U.K.) gradually dropped the idea of splitting “Flottilles” into small escadrilles."

He also quotes an order dated 30 May 1944 that "Les 3ème et 4ème flottilles ne seront pas articulées en escadrilles".