U-boat 2 Sep 43

[Chris Goss]

At 1656hrs on 2 Sep 43, Liberator FL938 of 224 Sqn ditched following combat with 14./KG 40. An hour later, the survivors managed to get the attention of a ship which turned out to be a U-boat "in Arctic camouflage, a sort of dirty yellow colour". The U-boat crew asked if they were Allied or German and, presumably as they were setting out on patrol, sailed on. Any thoughts as to the U-boat?

[RSwank]

Found this on the uboat.net site, posted by Thorsten Reich:

https://uboat.net/forums/read.php?3,...2106#msg-92106

"The only uboat that made contact with survivors of a downed allied plane on 02.09.1943 was U 386.
That took place at 20:28 in square BE 9658 which is roughly 175 nautical miles west of the spanish town La Coruna. But there were seven survivors in the dinghy.
The uboat did not take them on board because it was on it's way to the designated patrol area."

According to this German Naval Grid Calculator http://www.navalgrid.com/, Square BE 9658 is centered at 44°09'00"N, 012°15'00"W.

The U 386 was sunk 19 February 1944, 33 dead and 16 survivors. The captain of the U-boat survived the war.

https://uboat.net/men/commanders/8.html

[Chris Goss]

Thanks very much for this. The Lib had a crew of 8 plus a passenger, two crew going down with the plane. Approximate ditching area was 44.00N 11.00W so good match

[RSwank]

The link I gave is part of a long thread, in part, discussing the loss of two Liberators on 2 September, 1943. Here is another link into the part of the thread which gives the fates of the Liberator crews. Note they do appear to have different info on who shot down which plane.

https://uboat.net/forums/read.php?3,...3895#msg-33895

Link on the Wild Goose here: https://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Ch...-WildGoose.htm

There is mention of rescue of the Liberator crew, but it has the date as August 9 not September 9.

[Chris Goss]

Thanks again. First one was got by Lt Knud Gmelin even if his FB says 3 Sep 43. No idea where 2./ZG 1 and Bf 110Gs comes from for second one. RAF crew say it was Ju 88s and the claim was by Oblt Kurt Necesany of 14./KG 40. First head on attack killed pilot plus one and the result was inevitable! You sure about second link?

[RSwank]

Thanks, 2nd link on Wild Goose fixed above.

[Nick Beale]

National Archives HW 13/36, German Naval Air Activity Vol. X (1 Jul–30 Sep 1943) includes Report ZIP/No. 918 covering 2 September.

This says that five aircraft of 13./KG 40 were heard in W/T raffic from 0730–1005 BST. These were F8+AX, PX, LX, OX and MX. At 0838 F8+MX claimed to have shot down an enemy aircraft. All the German machines had landed by 1040.

There is a note that two Coastal Command aircraft were missing from Biscay patrols and it was not known which, if either, was the one reported shot down.

Ju 88s of 14./KG 40 were up in the late afternoon and F8+MY appeared to be in difficulties. Bf 110s of II./ZG 1 flew patrols (eight aircraft each time) from 0715–0930 and 1700–1915 but did not contact British aircraft.

If you wanted to look for deciphered signals from the U-boat, you could try downloading files DEFE 3/721 (covering 15 Aug–20 Sep 1943) from the UK National Archives. The boat sending the signal may be identified by its captain's name rather than its number.

[Chris Goss]

Thanks Nick. This accords with what I have-Gmelin shooting down Gibson in the morning and Necesany shooting down Wharram in the afternoon. However, Gmelin is 24 hours out in his logbook and states he was flying F8+AX up at 0704hrs, landing 1115hrs