Eagle Days: Life and Death for the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain

[John Vasco]

I clicked on the vid and it came up with a pay screen. That's all.

I'll look in, if I can, and see what is said.

[John Vasco]

This is what the blurb about the book said:
Eagle Days transforms the Luftwaffe's historical role during the RAF's 'Finest Hour' from a cartoonish antagonist to a multidimensional, flawed-yet-formidable opponent. The narrative contains not just the voices of the air crews who conducted the fighting, but uniquely never-before-translated primary source material of other contemporary eyewitnesses, (Luftwaffe's paratroopers, anti-aircraft gunners and air signalmen). Eagle Days will offer all fans of this period a refreshing, comprehensive and exciting new account of the Luftwaffe's real experiences during the Battle of Britain.

I've just spent 75 minutes listening to a general chat between the author and the two presenters, with about 4-5 questions in total from the 'chat' stream. All 'cosy' questions.

Not a single second about the in-depth content of the book, and what is new therein. She talked about the different phases of the BoB (which we all know anyway), and even got it wrong when she said fighter-bombers appeared in the later part of the BoB!

I'll buy the book to see if there is anything new in there. But I want 75 minutes of my life back! Draw your own conclusions from my last sentence...

[Nick Beale]

I watched it over breakfast this morning and my reaction is somewhat more generous than John's, but not to the extent of immediately putting in an order for the book. Dr. Taylor evidently speaks German and has gone into some interesting sources in Germany. It sounded as if she'd used ADI(K) prisoner interrogations but I'll be interested to see if she's also exploited the SRA reports (covertly recorded conversations) which are the Germans "in their own words".

The discussion was, for me, too much about fighters. Stephen Bungay (who did get a mention) made the valuable point way back that the whole issue for the RAF was to bring down bombers. She spoke sense about the Ju 87 force (which, incidentally was the only Luftwaffe arm bigger at the end of the Battle than it had been at the start). There was acknowledgement that the Luftwaffe was fighting a integrated defensive system.

Galland of course featured in the discussion, but I wouldn't trust his perspective. I've come to view The First and the Last as an exercise in positioning for the post-war era, both for himself and the "old guard" of the Jagdwaffe. Yes, he was there but in that book he was, in modern terms, promoting a brand.

(P.S. John: re your point about the Jabos — I think she was quoting Galland rather than saying that was her view, but I could be wrong about that).

I'll be interested to see how far the book recognises what a dire state the Luftwaffe was in at the end of the French campaign and the work needed to re-establish its serviceability; to upgrade and get established on French bases; fit more armour, bullet-resistant glass and defensive guns to the bombers; and find enough lifejackets and dinghies for the coming overwater operations. They had a lot of work to do to get ready for a new campaign.

[Chris Goss]

My concern are these new sources. Like John V, Peter Cornwall and The like, over the past 40+ years I contacted primary sources like veterans and there are none left so what else has she turned up? Likewise flak and fallschirmjäger- what exactly was their influence in the battle per se?

[John Vasco]

Nick: I don't believe she spoke sense about the Ju 87 force. We know that after the combats of 16th & 18th August that the Ju 87s were not used in force again, but she said they were not used because of the distance to London. What? Between 18th August and 7th September, as you know Nick, the Luftwaffe hammered at airfields, and they were well within the range of the Ju 87 had those units been based at the Pas de Calais.
As you say, the discussion was too much about the Bf 109.
I concur with your view re Galland. His post-war 'k' report (of which I have a complete copy) was the basis of his book, and was very much as you say.
I couldn't believe the mention of paratroopers and AA units. Yeah, paratroopers may come into play once any kind of invasion was attempted, but with regard to the aerial fighting over England, paratroopers had nothing to do with that. Ditto for Luftwaffe AA units.
She talked about the mental state of Luftwaffe crews. Did not the mental strain also apply to RAF fighter pilots also? Of course it did - she actually referenced the famous photo of Brian Lane. Nothing new there, and I was told stories from Luftwaffe veterans regarding this matter that I would never publish.
She also mentioned the initial bombing of Germany in 1940, and the fear of the population. What has that got to do with the Battle taking place over southern England? Absolutely nothing.
She closed by taking a swipe at Luftwaffe aircrew, and derided the fact that those who had interviewed them post-war looked on them with a certain amount of affection, as being just ordinary people. Her inference was that they were not. Her PhD was on 'The Luftwaffe and National Socialism in the Third Reich', so one might conclude here that her view was not entirely objective. I do not know whether she ever interviewed any Luftwaffe veterans - I suspect not. The likes of myself, Peter Cornwell, Chris Goss, Andy Saunders, and a whole host of others met and interviewed them, and I believe did not view them as a host of raging Nazis. She may hold that opinion of them; I certainly do not. They had a passion for flying. By dint of age and place of birth they flew for the Luftwaffe. That is all as far as I am concerned.

[richdlc]

I can’t add much to this except to say that Victoria is lovely, I’ve met her. She did a piece for Axis Wings, and she’s passionate. Like every historian though she’s always learning new information all the time, so might her opinions change over time? I don’t know.
And this might be a sweeping statement but I think men are much more anal about the minutiae than women. Don’t shoot me down in flames for saying that!

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by richdlc

I can’t add much to this except to say that Victoria is lovely, I’ve met her. She did a piece for Axis Wings, and she’s passionate. Like every historian though she’s always learning new information all the time, so might her opinions change over time? I don’t know.
And this might be a sweeping statement but I think men are much more anal about the minutiae than women. Don’t shoot me down in flames for saying that!

It's got nothing to do with the sexes. It's about finding out facts, and presenting them. She doesn't need any kind of apologia re minutiae. It's the lack of minutiae that has led people to believe that Dowding was sacked, and the Bf 110 pure fighter units needing Bf 109 escort in the BoB (yes, one of my pet peeves!).
And I would venture to suggest that every writer on the Battle of Britain is passionate about the subject. Show me one who isn't...

[Nick Beale]

John: Yes, sorry about the Stukas. Probably truer to say that they were withdrawn to conserve the force for close support during an invasion (ULTRA tells us that 1 September orders were issued to move seven Stuka Gruppen to airfields in the Pas de Calais region, none of them more than 60 km inland).
I'd differ with you a little over the Flak and RAF bombing of continental targets in that it was in reality a two-way war, not an absolutely clear-cut issue of Germans attacking, British defending. Again it's clear from ULTRA that the Germans were very jittery about the security of their airfields in the face of the bombing. Bombing of Germany itself diverted Zerstörer assets into the Nachtjagd Division.
As for the Nazism, the NSDAP's "national revolution" sought to transform (or in my terms morally corrupt) an entire people. One of "my" veterans, as decent, thoughtful and liberal-minded a man as you could ask for told me that in the 30s he and others had been enthused/carried away (»begeistert«) by the pace of developments in Germany. Party membership in 1939 was 5.3 million and kept on rising so it would be remarkable if there weren't a lot of card-carriers in the Luftwaffe. Plus, it's hard to fight for one's country without also fighting for the people in charge. There's more about Dr. Taylor's thesis here but it's not downloadable (although you can get her one on the Dams raids).

Chris: "New" or at least less-explored BoB sources might include the 3,000+ pages of ULTRA for 1940 (but I'm working on that); the 424 Air Ministry Daily W/T Intelligence Summaries up to the end of October 1940; the 899 CSDIC(UK) SRA reports up to 12 November; the 421 daily Western Front Sitreps to 31 October at TSAMO (complimenting BAMA's Luftflotte 3 daily reports); and (if you're so inclined) TSAMo's 2,226 files on »Seelöwe« + more on that subject in their OKW collection.

Rich: If you think women are less into minutiae you probably haven't lived with a patchwork quilter (let alone one whose professional specialism was blood cell morphology) but seriously, accuracy and historical enquiry go hand in hand, don't they?

[John Vasco]

Good post, Nick, and points well made.
However, the Nachtjagd was formed in June 1940 after some light incursions in the far north of Europe. See the chapter on the Nachtjagd in the book by myself and Peter Cornwell, 'Zerstörer, The Messerschmitt 110 and its units in 1940'. The formation of NJG 1 at the back end of June 1940 did not have a major impact on the daylight Battle of Britain.
And it is not in dispute that there were occasional raids on the Lw airfields in France.
As for the flak units, they had no influence over the day-to-day fighting over eastern/southern England during the Battle of Britain. For the life of me, I cannot understand how anyone can bring them into the equation of the Battle of Britain.
And I agree re 1930s Germany. Those young Lw flyers in 1940 had lived their teenage years in the Third Reich and been subject to the constant pressure/indoctrination of the regime.
As for this: '...Plus, it's hard to fight for one's country without also fighting for the people in charge...' I agree. As one ZG 26 pilot said under interrogation, 'My country, right or wrong'. Applies to combatants of all nations.
Good discussion, Nick.

[Chris Goss]

Thanks Nick I remain convinced these sources were used though and I know you are ploughing through them. Did she consult you? I would have thought my 2 books of accounts from German aircrew would or could have been of use but I was not contacted