Photo with the plate of Bf 109E-7 WNr 6409 (1./SchG1) and conflicting record in 6.Abt.Qu loss return

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello,

on 15.9.42 the loss of Bf 109E-7 WNr.6409 (1./SchG1) appeared in Gen.Qu.6.Abt. losses return, Ofw pilot Paul Nieszery KIA (RL2-III/1183, 15.9.42, Lfd.Nr.54, date of loss - 23.8.42).
On 21.9.42 WNr was corrected to 6445.
But, as you can see in the photo, the plate from 6409 was found approximately where the German report indicates - NW Stalingrad.



I think the likely explanation is that both planes (6409 and 6445) were lost. When it turned out that the pilot wasn't KIA on 6409, this number was corrected, but they forgot to add the loss of 6409 without the loss of the pilot.
On 23.8.42 at least 7 Bf 109Es of SchG1 were lost or damaged, adding to the likelihood of error in the reports.

A separate issue is that on the plate the "8" has stamped above the "7" in "E-7". What does this mean?

Best regards,
Andrey

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Andrey,

Maybe the "8" you interpreted over the number 7 can be a "B", therefore an E-7/B?

Adriano

[Adriano Baumgartner]

By the way,

WELL DONE to the you and your Team who have found the wreckages. Your interpretation of the errors on the Gen.Qu.6.Abt. losses are interesting. We must remember we are dealing with Beamters copying those data and there surely are a lot of typpos on them.

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello Adriano,

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

WELL DONE to the you and your Team who have found the wreckages

They're not my team, they're friends of my friends

Maybe the "8" you interpreted over the number 7 can be a "B", therefore an E-7/B?

This idea did not occur to me. Thanks!

Best regards,
Andrey

[Matti Salonen]

Correct number must be 6409 which is written in the NVM. 6445 has nothing to do with this loss because it was lost a year later on 17 May 1943:
1943-05-17, I/Schl.G 101, Bf 109 E-7, 6445, Fl.Pl. Reims
Beim Start ausgebrochen und Überschlag. Bruch 100 %.

War-time error by some clerk.

Matti

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Thank you, Matti!

It is a pity that in many cases one can only hope that the WNr in these returns are correct. Because often this is the only info about a particular aircraft and verification is impossible.

Best regards,
Andrey

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Adriano, when you enlarge the picture, you can clearly see that it's "8", not "B". So it looks to be an Bf109E-7 converted into E-8.

Best regards,
Andrey

[edwest2]

I would not be too hasty about what is possible and impossible. There may be photo evidence as well. Along with flugbuch entries. Some errors may not be resolved but one should mark such questionable entries as such and move on. The researcher is faced with a large number of aircraft loss reports but other possibilities should be kept in mind.

[Andrey Kuznetsov]

Hello Ed,

yes, some cases can be checked one way or another. But the level of uncertainty is many times higher than in other Air Forces. And yes, it just needs to be accepted as a given, and move on.

Best regards,
Andrey