Eagle Days: Life and Death for the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain

[Adriano Baumgartner]

I will keep as John Vasco wingman onto this thread...
No cross-check with RAF ORB's? No cross check with some available KTB at BAMA? No cross-checking of LW and RAF losses at BAMA and other post-war published books?
No quotations from some well known and relevant published works (post-war, of course) on the BoB? Obscur footnotes from German Newspapers (some we can find digitalized), letters from some N.C.O's deep inside Germany or stationed somewhere on the Western Front, but not directly related to BoB flying units (maybe she is looking at civilian morale or the morale of the troops....am not sure here about her proposals....since those letters are not directly related to the BoB).
And indeed John....historically speaking, "circa 15-20" is not, mathematically speaking too, equal to 21 losses....

Thanks again John for sharing your views on Chapters 9 and 10....we're getting a CLEAR view of her unclear and blurred work, in my humble (without Master or PhD Degrees and not a Graduation on History, rather Journalism) perspective.

P.S.: I shall keep on your wing, even inverted, onto this thread.

[Chris Goss]

Don't forget who controlled German papers at the time-Dr Joseph Goebbel's Reichsministerium für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda (Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda). I would be very careful as to using such as a balanced report. Page 325? Do enlighten us!

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

Don't forget who controlled German papers at the time-Dr Joseph Goebbel's Reichsministerium für Volksaufklärung und Propaganda (Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda). I would be very careful as to using such as a balanced report. Page 325? Do enlighten us!

Just checked that page (getting ahead of myself). The odd Lw person joining in with executions of jews.

Trying hard to understand her point in relation to the sub-title of the book, which is 'the LUFTWAFFE in the BATTLE OF BRITAIN'...

[John Vasco]

Chapter 11 read

Mainly covers what was heard by our sneaky microphones listening in to conversations between prisoners. A bit at the start about a bomber crew being entertained in a farmhouse.

On to chapter 12...

[FalkeEins]

Originally Posted by John Vasco

The odd Lw person joining in with executions of jews. Trying hard to understand her point in relation to the sub-title of the book, which is 'the LUFTWAFFE in the BATTLE OF BRITAIN'...

the 'chivalrous fighter pilots' myth - the brave 'heroes' should not be detached from or cancel out 'the small pool of ruthless killers who already lurked in all branches of the Luftwaffe by the summer of 1940...' Some, like Lehweß-Litzmann, who flew his first sorties over England during this period, were aware of what was happening to civilians and Jews...etc etc

Lehweß-Litzmann - the Kommodore who switched sides

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

Obscur footnotes from German Newspapers (some we can find digitalized), letters from some N.C.O's deep inside Germany or stationed somewhere on the Western Front, but not directly related to BoB flying units (maybe she is looking at civilian morale or the morale of the troops....am not sure here about her proposals....since those letters are not directly related to the BoB).

There is nothing wrong in writing a book about how the Germans themselves perceived the Battle of Britain, nor in discussing the kind of people some of the 'chivalrous heroes' actually were. Many of us here (me included) may gravitate to aircraft-by-aircraft analysis but context is not irrelevant.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

NICK,

I partially agree and disagree with you. Indeed, there is nothing wrong in showing what the WW2 German (or UK, or USA or even Brazilian) newspapers did publish at that time (and I used WW2 newspapers too, on at least one published and two of my current - unpublished - works) about the Luftwaffe campaign against England.

However the context she is adding those newspaper entries is not (in my opinion) related to what she is describing on the tittle of her work: "operational history" (not journalistic reports influenced by Nationalist Propaganda); or "everyday life and death for the ENTIRE Luftwaffe during its ten-months Luftschlacht um England".

Page 7: '...Eighty five years after the Battle of Britain, a comprehensive history on everyday life and death for the entire Luftwaffe during its ten-month Luftschlacht um England is yet to be penned. Thus, Eagle Days: Life and Death for the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain rectifies this by providing a typical operational history of the German air force during the iconic campaign, but adopting a holistic approach that encompasses the rank and file of the infamous organisation...'
Chapter 4 read (John Vasco review).
Denmark and Norwegian campaign. For anyone who has read up on this north European campaign, I do not see anything new. The usual quotes from letters of completely unknown people writing home, with no connection to the BoB, and also from the odd aircrew and 'higher-ups'.

Regarding post #107
#107
…high-quality training remained of paramount importance, given that some Luftwaffe airmen had lost their lives by simply NEGLECTING to use their oxygen masks at high altitude.”

What she considers high altitude?

Is there positive evidence that Luftwaffe pilots neglected to use their oxygen masks?

One thing is to have leakages on the masks and your ULTRA on KGr 100 do quote an Oberleutnant (do not remember by heart his name now) asking for old versions of oxygen mask that fitted him or his large nose or face, to be sent directly to Vannes-Meucon, am I wrong?

I have read hundreds of war diaries and WW2 Aviation books...on quite a number of them, there are written (and remembered) cases of oxygen masks leakages and problems with valves....with the inevitable death of airmen both in RAF Fighter Command, RAF Bomber Command, on American WW2 memories, etc...and there are the cases when the author himself passed through the early simptons of hipoxia, but managed to control the situation and return.

In all published books I have read, never I read about of a Luftwaffe airmen not using his oxygen mask; fully knowing that he is going to fly above 12,000 feet. The only case I remember is that of Erich Sommer, when he talks about his Ju 86 R flights over England, in 1942...on a pressurized machine, on "Luftwaffe Eagle". Of course, below the critical height of circa 12,000 feet; ALL of them (Americans, British, Germans, etc.) could disconnect their oxygen masks without any physical harm, as we all know. Galland himself used to smoke below 12,000 feet without oxygen mask...and if memory does not fail me...Bader too smoked his pipe below that height.

Adriano

[Nick Beale]

Adriano, I don’t understand why my latest post made you think about oxygen masks when all I was trying to say was that the context in which the fighting took place is a legitimate thing to consider. If you haven’t already read it, I recommend ‘The German War’ by Nicholas Stargardt.

Whether Dr. Taylor is right or wrong about airmen not wearing their masks, I have no idea without reading the book and checking the source. Meanwhile, you might find something relevant in Bundesarchiv RL 8/78: Abteilung I T.- Atemmaske HM 51 für Höhenflüge (1939–1941) which is digitised.

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

There is nothing wrong in writing a book about how the Germans themselves perceived the Battle of Britain, nor in discussing the kind of people some of the 'chivalrous heroes' actually were. Many of us here (me included) may gravitate to aircraft-by-aircraft analysis but context is not irrelevant.

There is if the sub-title of the book is 'LIFE AND DEATH for the LUFTWAFFE in the BATTLE OF BRITAIN'.

Perceptions of the ordinary German people does not sit with the title/sub-title 100%. The actions of the odd rogue(s) equally has no relevance to the title or sub-title...

[FalkeEins]

[quote=Adriano Baumgartner;345158

In all published books I have read, never I read about of a Luftwaffe airmen not using his oxygen mask

Adriano[/QUOTE]

... slightly more disturbing - and the first time I've come across this- is Taylor's description of a Luftwaffe pilot being invited to participate in mass killing, being handed an MG and relishing the experience of mowing down 1500 Jews...