31.12.1943 - Combat with FW-190 (St. Jean d'Angely)

[Henofred]

Hello/Bonjour,

In the early afternoon of 31 December 1943, did a German Gruppe which flew FW-190s report combat with P-38s (55th FG) protecting a group of bombers returning from a mission over St. Jean d'Angely? Merci beaucoup.

Best regards,
Frederic

[Chris Goss]

Thgere was quite a bit going on that day with I & III./JG 2 and SAGr 128 involved but no claims or combats with P-38s mentioned

[VtwinVince]

I thought it was spelled St. Jean d'Angeli?

[Chris Goss]

https://www.google.com/search?client...ean+d%27angely

[Henofred]

Merci beaucoup Chris.

My question is because the 55th FG/343rd FS mentions a fight with FW-190s [MACR 1970] in which a P-38 – the one flown by 2nd Lt Larson – which was hit in the left engine. The latter made a belly landing near the town of Pornichet, France, and a report from the 5. Marine Flak Brigade which is examining the U.S. plane, confirms this fact. 2nd Lt. Larson is captured.

Best regards,
Frederic

[Chris Goss]

There are from what I can see no claims for P-38s and in any case, if damaged, the Luftwaffe never logged these. Nick Beale might have something else

[Henofred]

Once again, merci Chris.

If he does not see this post, I will contact Nick, I have his E-mail address.

Excerpt from the German document, translated: [...] The 5. Flakbrigade reported the following on the Admiral Atlantikküste's request for reconnaissance fire: "Inspection of the Lightning which had made an emergency landing on December 31, 1943 clearly showed that the aircraft had not been hit by Flak. The only decisive impact (a machine-gun bullet mark in the fuel filter) was in fact caused by a fighter even before the aircraft appeared in the area concerned. The aircraft landed due to the resulting loss of fuel." [...] The P-38 having been under fire from two German ships off the Loire estuary before its belly landing.

All the best,
Frederic

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Chris Goss

Nick Beale might have something else.

Ever the optimist! The Air Operational Watch report for the day (TNA HW 13/37) isn't much help, just:

'…a single He 177 [of II./KG 40] was airborne in the early morning … This aircraft was instructed by Bordeaux at 1158 to break off its task. The occurrence of a raid by the uS 8th Bomber Command on the Bordeaux area may have some connection with this decision.'

On TNA HW 13/26 there is a report on 'Single-engined fighter patrols west of Brest' but that is from 15 August 1843, so too early for this action.

On TNA HW 13/106 the weekly report covering 26 December–1 January says only that 'Fw 190s of 1.(F)/128 operated from Brest on 27/12 (and again on 30/12)', nothing about the raid on Bordeaux.

The ULTRA messages that I have are no help but it may be worth downloading files DEFE 3/16 and /17 which cover intercepted signals from 27 December 1943 to 5 January 1944.

There may be something in AIR 22/500: 'Air Ministry W/T Intelligence Service Daily Summaries: nos. 1549-1700 Vol.25 (Dec 1943–Apr 1944)' but that isn't digitised.

[Henofred]

Hello Nick,

Thank you for this detailed reply. I will download the DEFE 3/16 and /17 files to see if we have anything on this matter.

Best regards,
Frederic

[VtwinVince]

Thanks Chris, I have a photo from 1918 taken on the steps of the chateau.