Me210 loss 1943?

[George Hopp]

From ADI (K) Report No. 223/1944 of 20 May 1944:

On the night of 25/26 April 1944, Lw bomber forces made 2 attacks on shipping and concentrations of landing craft in the Portsmouth area. During both these attacks Me 410s of 1 (F)/121 flew strike assessment sorties over the target area, taking photographs with the help of photographic flash bombs. One of these Me 410s was shot down by a nightfighter during the 2nd attack; the W/T operator, who baled out, was picked up later in the sea and taken into Portsmouth.

These attacks were carried out based on cover obtained by a/c of 3/121 in the early morning of 25 April 1944.

The a/c had been flying at 8,000m with the W/T operator freely throwing out Window. But, though the a/c had Neptun, the pilot chose not to use it. The a/c had taken off from Orly soon after 0400 hours.

On the intell report the a/c type was stated to be a Me 410 B-4, a sub-type with which I am not familiar. I note, from the 1944 C-Amts reports, no Me 410B-type recce a/c were ever produced, so I would assume that the a/c was actually an Me 410A-3 -- of interest only, I guess, to us rivet counters.

As with the 109 mentioned earlier, visual observation of this shoot down would have been very problematic.

"The Blitz: Then and Now," vol. 3 says the a/c belonged to 1(F)/122 and was shot down at 05:07, by F/L BA Burtbridge and F/L FS Skelton in a Mosquito of 85 Sqdn. They shot down Oberlt. H Kroll (Staffelkapitan) killed, and Ofrich. W Mayer PoW.

[Chris Goss]

All I have is Jaschinski was awarded DKiG 26 Jan 44 with 4/123. I ncidentally, Hermann Kroll was a RK and EP holder, RK being awarded for his time with 7/LG 2. A second Me 410 was lost 26 Apr 44 flown by Fw Kurt Stoll and coming down at Le Havre

[Brian Bines]

The two Me 410's were the nearest loss I could find with one coming down off the IOW, Andy does say his info. was very sketchy. The 410 coming down at Le Havre is showing as having a crew of three ( Ff. Fw Stoll -Bf. Fhj.Fw. Kraupata and B. Uffz Ziegler all killed ). At 0023 hrs F/Sgt. Rogers of 85 Sqd. engaged a 410 over the S.Coast claiming hits to the starboard wing, the 'K' for the second 410 shot down says that the Le Havre one reported ' one of its engines had been damaged ' which may have resulted from Rogers attack.
As regards to Ltn. Jaschinski I was told the K (or crash report ) said he also wore the paratroopers badge but I have not seen a copy.

[Chris Goss]

I have the K Report which does say that he wore a 'badge which is awarded to paratroopers after 6 jumps'. It also confirms that 2 fighters were observed and that one was shot down by a fighter (and I know from an eyewitness that AA claimed it subsequently). The eyewitness thought the aircraft was a He 177 (!!). He said: "...we spotted the 177 [sic] coming in from the south at what must have been 30000'. As we watched, a smaller aircraft closed rapidly head on and as it came close, a trail of small white puffs appeared behind it. The 177 exploded with a brilliant orange flash and we saw pieces of it glinting in the sun as they fell to earth over a period of about 5 minutes...". Admitdely, the head on attack does not match with the 124 Sqn CR but the height matches

[George Hopp]

The two Me 410's were the nearest loss I could find with one coming down off the IOW, Andy does say his info. was very sketchy. The 410 coming down at Le Havre is showing as having a crew of three ( Ff. Fw Stoll -Bf. Fhj.Fw. Kraupata and B. Uffz Ziegler all killed ).

Brian, do you happen to have any more ID information on that Me 410 coming down at Le Havre, as well as the one that was shot down later? I also found 3 dead from a Me 210 crash during the North African campaign. It turned out that after the plane crashed a person on the ground tried to either defuse the bombs the a/c was carrying or help the crew get away and was killed with them. I mention this because unless the 3rd crew member sat on the lap of the 2nd there is no room for a 3rd crew member in the conventional Me 410.

However, in Mayer's interrogation report he mentions that: "By the installation of this automatic camera the necessity for an observer has been eliminated, but in some other Me.410's of the unit which are not yet so equipped an observer has to be carried. The latter a/c are fitted with a gondola which accommodates the observer and the camera; the observer is solely concerned with operating the camera, leaving the W/T operator free as a defensive lookout." I assume that the gondola mentioned is the standard one for the recce a/c, but this is the first I had heard of plugging a crewman into that area. So, is this what happened, or was this a bit of mis-direction? But, since neither practise would mean much to the Allies in an operational sense, I am inclined to give it some small credence.

[Brian Bines]

NVM shows F, Bf, and B as one crew with Ort, Le Havre - Tag 26-4-1944 - Fiendflug ja. No aircraft details shown just Unit, Letzer Wohnort and burial details for each man. Other details shown are Auftrag - Nachtbildenfklarung Portsmouth ,Ursache - Motorstorung ,Feindbeobachtet nein . I have seen a drawing of a Me 410 with a third creman carried in the prone position of the modified bombay but cannot remember which book is was in,
Regards
Brian

[George Hopp]

On the intell report the a/c type was stated to be a Me 410 B-4, a sub-type with which I am not familiar. I note, from the 1944 C-Amts reports, no Me 410B-type recce a/c were ever produced, so I would assume that the a/c was actually an Me 410A-3 -- of interest only, I guess, to us rivet counters.

Oops, what was I thinking? Of course Me 410B-3s were produced, all in the 190 xxx range -- about 34 of them according to Mankau/Petrick. It shows that the C-Amts reports should be used as a guide only. But, none had been produced before June 1944, so my original comment stands about it being an Me 410A-3.

NVM shows F, Bf, and B as one crew with Ort, Le Havre - Tag 26-4-1944 - Fiendflug ja. No aircraft details shown just Unit, Letzer Wohnort and burial details for each man. Other details shown are Auftrag - Nachtbildenfklarung Portsmouth ,Ursache - Motorstorung ,Feindbeobachtet nein . I have seen a drawing of a Me 410 with a third creman carried in the prone position of the modified bombay but cannot remember which book is was in,
Regards
Brian

Great stuff, Brian. Thanks! If you ever spot that drawing of a 410 with that 3rd person in the bomb bay, would you mind posting it or sending it?
Thanks again.
George