Me210 loss 1943?

[George Hopp]

The two Me 410's were the nearest loss I could find with one coming down off the IOW, Andy does say his info. was very sketchy. The 410 coming down at Le Havre is showing as having a crew of three ( Ff. Fw Stoll -Bf. Fhj.Fw. Kraupata and B. Uffz Ziegler all killed ).

Brian, do you happen to have any more ID information on that Me 410 coming down at Le Havre, as well as the one that was shot down later? I also found 3 dead from a Me 210 crash during the North African campaign. It turned out that after the plane crashed a person on the ground tried to either defuse the bombs the a/c was carrying or help the crew get away and was killed with them. I mention this because unless the 3rd crew member sat on the lap of the 2nd there is no room for a 3rd crew member in the conventional Me 410.

However, in Mayer's interrogation report he mentions that: "By the installation of this automatic camera the necessity for an observer has been eliminated, but in some other Me.410's of the unit which are not yet so equipped an observer has to be carried. The latter a/c are fitted with a gondola which accommodates the observer and the camera; the observer is solely concerned with operating the camera, leaving the W/T operator free as a defensive lookout." I assume that the gondola mentioned is the standard one for the recce a/c, but this is the first I had heard of plugging a crewman into that area. So, is this what happened, or was this a bit of mis-direction? But, since neither practise would mean much to the Allies in an operational sense, I am inclined to give it some small credence.

[Brian Bines]

NVM shows F, Bf, and B as one crew with Ort, Le Havre - Tag 26-4-1944 - Fiendflug ja. No aircraft details shown just Unit, Letzer Wohnort and burial details for each man. Other details shown are Auftrag - Nachtbildenfklarung Portsmouth ,Ursache - Motorstorung ,Feindbeobachtet nein . I have seen a drawing of a Me 410 with a third creman carried in the prone position of the modified bombay but cannot remember which book is was in,
Regards
Brian

[George Hopp]

On the intell report the a/c type was stated to be a Me 410 B-4, a sub-type with which I am not familiar. I note, from the 1944 C-Amts reports, no Me 410B-type recce a/c were ever produced, so I would assume that the a/c was actually an Me 410A-3 -- of interest only, I guess, to us rivet counters.

Oops, what was I thinking? Of course Me 410B-3s were produced, all in the 190 xxx range -- about 34 of them according to Mankau/Petrick. It shows that the C-Amts reports should be used as a guide only. But, none had been produced before June 1944, so my original comment stands about it being an Me 410A-3.

NVM shows F, Bf, and B as one crew with Ort, Le Havre - Tag 26-4-1944 - Fiendflug ja. No aircraft details shown just Unit, Letzer Wohnort and burial details for each man. Other details shown are Auftrag - Nachtbildenfklarung Portsmouth ,Ursache - Motorstorung ,Feindbeobachtet nein . I have seen a drawing of a Me 410 with a third creman carried in the prone position of the modified bombay but cannot remember which book is was in,
Regards
Brian

Great stuff, Brian. Thanks! If you ever spot that drawing of a 410 with that 3rd person in the bomb bay, would you mind posting it or sending it?
Thanks again.
George

[George Hopp]

The eyewitness thought the aircraft was a He 177 (!!).

As a single a/c flying over the Isle of Wight, I would tend to go for something like a Ju 86P/R rather than an He 177.

[George Hopp]

Here is a general view of the photo pod of the Me 410. It looks like it would be very difficult to fit a person in the rear part of that pod because the area with the numbers 1 and 3 holds the two cameras, and the area behind the cameras is directly beneath the W/T observer. Possibly, by taking out the ammo cans -- the area shown here as the covered portion between the 2 cockpits -- and moving back the W/T operator a few inches, an observer could be moved into the area thus freed.

Does anyone have any other ideas?