Bad News from WASt

[rob van den nieuwendijk]

Chris,

The personal files (Luftwaffe Offiziere) have been moved to Bundesarchiv/Freiburg.

See below - from http://www.bundesarchiv.de/bestaende...125/index.html

Zum 31.12.2005 wurde die Zentralnachweisstelle (ZNS) in Aachen-Kornelimünster aufgelöst. Die Zuständigkeiten für die Ausstellung von Dienstnachweisen oder anderen Bescheinigungen aus der Zeit von 1920 bis 1945 haben sich dadurch verändert.

Für Bescheinigungen zu ehemals Angehörigen des Heeres, der Reichs- und Kriegsmarine, der Luftwaffe, der Waffen-SS, Beamte, zu Angestellten und Arbeitern der Wehrmacht, zu Angehörige des gesamten männlichen und weiblichen Wehrmachtgefolges, der Organisation Todt und des Reichsarbeitsdienstes sowie bei Nachweisen über Kriegsgefangenschaft und zur Klärung von Vermisstenschicksalen wenden Sie sich bitte an:

Deutsche Dienststelle (WASt)
Eichborndamm 167 – 179
13403 Berlin
Internet: www.dd-wast.de

Für Auskünfte aus den Personalakten der Offiziere und Beamten der Wehrmacht wenden Sie sich bitte an:

Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv
Wiesentalstraße 10
79115 Freiburg/Brsg.
E-mail: militaerarchiv@barch.bund.de

Unterlagen über wehrmachtgerichtliche Verfahren sowie die Verleihung von Orden und Ehrenzeichen liegen, soweit erhalten, gleichfalls im Bundesarchiv-Militärarchiv vor.

Für Bescheinigungen zu Dienstzeiten aus dem Bereich der Polizei sollte zunächst bei den Nachfolgebehörden der früheren Polizei(heimat)dienststellen angefragt werden, sofern diese ihren Sitz im Gebiet der Bundesrepublik Deutschland haben. Hat eine solche Anfrage keinen Erfolg oder lag die Polizei(heimat)dienststelle außerhalb der Grenzen der Bundesrepublik Deutschland vom 3.Oktober 1990, sollte eine Anfrage an das Bundesarchiv gerichtet gerichtet werden.

Bundesarchiv
Postfach 450 569
12175 Berlin
Email: berlin@barch.bund.de

Falls es erforderlich ist, beteiligen die Deutsche Dienststelle (WASt) und das Bundesarchiv andere Stellen, die über weitere Unterlagen verfügen.



DOSSIER: Personenbezogene Unterlagen militärischer Herkunft bis 1945 (112 kb)


and see link:

http://www.bundesarchiv.de/bestaende...066/index.html



Regards,
Rob

[Marcel van Heijkop]

Thanks for the info, Rob.

Groeten,

Marcel

[Co de Swart]

Originally Posted by Jochen Prien

Gentlemen,

I don't think that the reaction of the WASt. is the result of some recent development over here in Germany but rather part of an official - albeit not publicly proclaimed - policy that has been going on for quite some time now and is aiming at restricting and eventually suffocating any other than purely scientific interest in the material stored at the official archives.

I have had the same experience with the Bundesarchiv / Bildarchiv over the years; when I first had contact with the BA while researching the history of JG 53 in 1985 I was helped by the staff in a most generous way, was shown around and given hints at not so obvious files where I was supposed to find what I wanted. The prints I acquired then were first class - old style photo paper, technically perfect - and were reasonably priced both as far as the acquisition of the photos as such and the payment of royalties for publication in the books were concerned.

This situation has changed constantly over the years; to cut a long story short, in the end they used plastic paper, let the quality of the prints drop considerably - blurred, too much b/w contrast, not full format - and what was the best - they did not sell the prints any longer but gave them on loan only, to be returned asap and this for prices and costs that were markedly above those where we originally started from. In my opinion all of this is meant to deter people from coming to the BA and trying to use the material that is stored there. This policy was issued higher up, definitely not at the Archive itself, and the situation was tolerable as long as the old staff was still active who knew their customers.

When I complained about this intolerable decrease of service and quality I was told that a) they didn't understand what I was complaining about and b) that they had their regulations which they had strictly to abide by. If there were a change in their services it was only for the benefit of the conservation of their assets which would suffer from extended and multiple use. At the same time they denied that this might be part of a new policy aiming at the German style of Political Correctness.

This is of course only a miniscule part of the overall issue which is that in our country these days everything is done to restrict free access to any sort of document relating to the Third Reich in general and WW II in particular where the official authorities have no control over what the user eventually does with the material he gathered. The growing number of right wing idiots - Neo-Nazis - in our country who might use this sort of material for glorifying the War and especially the Wehrmacht serves as an additional argument for this policy, doubtful or outright wrong as it may be. It all leads back to the simple truth, that Germany - the West as well as the East, although in a different fashion - have up until now failed to work up the twelve years of the Third Reich properly, to really go after all the villains and to cleanse the nation once and for all future from this sickest part of its history in order to make the next generations immune to all sorts of totalitarism. Had they / we done this properly instead of wiping large parts under the carpet of oblivion, the present situation would not have arisen.

Regards

Jochen Prien

P.S.: Didn't it all start for many of us more than three decades ago, when Hakenkreuze - swastikas - on plastic scale model aircraft were forbidden by law ? As if this could have the slightest effect when it came to preventing young or older people from becoming Neo-Nazis. But there we go: it only takes denying facts to be politically correct.

I believe Mr. Prien is coming most close to the cause of this 'change in behaviour' signalled and experienced.
Influences of political changes in Berlin also spread over the present Luftwaffe, see a.o. the removal on Fürstenfeldbrück of street-names related to the frmr.Lw Flugzeugführer of the period 1936-1945 etc. 'Removal' of Tradition in the Lw. could mean denying part of the Lw.- history and even in the end some form of history-falsification.
For the vets-soldiers of that period still with us,, not a very pleasant experience, some even feel themselves driven in the Nazi-corner of having been war-criminals.
Following articles in the FAZ, more or less regularly published there will keep you somehow posted on this subject-related issue.

Co de Swart,
H-historian Airwar WWII, Holland.
But, let's stay away from 'politics' although we meet some of the results in our hobby-work too.

[VtwinVince]

I also like the comments of Herr Dr. Prien regarding the arbitrary and ridiculous laws of Germany regarding such things as the displaying of Hakenkreuze. I also think the recent revelations regarding the service of Guenter Grass in the Waffen-SS is just another example of "Waldheimer's Disease", where the sufferer gets old and forgets he was once a "Nazi".

[Jukka Juutinen]

Why this singling out of GERMAN "war criminals"? Why don´t the followers of J.P. have no interest in war crimes committed by others? Why is J.P. advocating a bolshevist approach on historiography (bolshevist approach=the mission of histoarians is to support a certain political agenda instead of being purely objective and neutral)? Why at least 99.99% of war criminals convicted throughout history are Germans? Or does one seriously suggest that at least 99.99% of war criminals of known history are Germans? For me all "war crimes" trials are purely political jokes unless ALL war criminals of ALL nations of ALL times are convicted.

Could it be simply that Germans made the mistake of selecting the wrong victims? After all, one recent American pro-Bush history of the US basically condones the genocide of Indians by calling the victims "barbarians". And these "barbarians" don´t have a multi-billion extortion industry to propagandize their suffering.

[mkenny]

Originally Posted by Jukka Juutinen

Could it be simply that Germans made the mistake of selecting the wrong victims? ......................................... ...................... a multi-billion extortion industry to propagandize their suffering.

Why on earth is this rubbish being posted here?

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by mkenny

Why on earth is this rubbish being posted here?

I quite agree.

Cool it please, Jukka. The issue in this thread was the availability of historical source material not your views on the application international law.

[wiegand]

Sad thing is, individuals such as myself who have a GENUINE reason to reasearch (family related) will have a difficult time getting data. I need to ascertain Luftwaffe info but for the few who are selfish that is a more difficult task.

[Uncle Sam]

Interesting posts here.

However, have to take an issue with Mr Prein's comments on 'right-wing'. National-Socialism and Fascism are essentially left-wing, and are b*stards of the French revolution, as Mr Le Pen put it. Nazism is labeled as right wing in order to smear patriotic right wing parties who are not Nazi, racist, or anti-semitic.

Unfortunately now that patriotic politicians such as Dr. Konrad Adenauer, who stood up for HIAG and German veterans, or Cardinal Graf Galens (the famous one who stood up against the Nazi euthanasia program) who stood up for Wehrmacht POWs and Panzermeyer, are gone, anyone that writes in an objective manner about the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, or whatever is automatically labeled a 'right-wing extremist' or a 'revisionist', especially after the sickening 1968 student communist revolution.

The Germans have an eternal guilt complex. I only need to second Pat Buchanan's words. 'Fascism will come back in the disguise of anti-fascism'.

A people shows no greatness in honoring it's warriors coming home victorious. But how great and noble a people would be that still binds wreaths to its men who return defeated.

E.v.D

And why the concern about a small fringe group of neo-nazi idiots? I'll offer $100 for anyone that can prove that they are going to be the new government. Any takers? Don't be fooled.

K

[Uncle Sam]

Although back onto the topic at hand. If nothing is available from the government a lot of archived information is available from publishing companies such as the Munin-Verlag or Motorbuch-Verlag, or individuals such as German veterans, or knowledgeable authors such as Franz Kurowski. I know some will take an issue with how Kurowski writes some of his books, but he has done some excellent research in the 50s when things were clean under Adenauer! Munin-Verlag is mostly Waffen-SS based, but they have some Luftwaffe material and books as well.

http://www.munin-verlag.de

K