Messerschmitt 109 Design Problems

[RT]

Carson is not the best reference, further the worst problem is not a design one is that it will be necessary to hv at least 2 much more of them I mean of bf109, nd the pilots to drive them nd the gasoline to feed them,you don't win a war with best fighter but with the greater number, even against the P51, 1 to 1, the P51 hv soon diseappear of the european skies..


remi

[Franek Grabowski]

This must be a joke. P-51 outclassed any German fighter available and ruled the sky over Germany since spring 1944. The one cannot agree with Carson's arguments though.

[RT]

Nobody contest that the P51 was the second best fighter of WWII, I just try to put emphasis in qty vs qly, the same qty of 109 waiting for same qty of mustangs, would lead to losses that USAF would not sustain for long, pls see the lesson of the BoB, the hurricane if enought of them would win it even alone

remi

[Franek Grabowski]

Mustang did not win the war because of quantity but because of range and quality of a system they were part of. There were numerous dog fights in the later part of war when Allied aircraft were outnumbered, nonetheless beating the Germans. Luftwaffe, even if triple sized, was just enough hopeless, not to be able to win the air war. Rather low quality of their aircraft was just one of the factors.

[RT]

The facts are, that without air superiority, the allies could not land nd so not win the war, no necessity to count on the soviets, air superiority is the number, at 1 against 10 there is no dogfights just butchery, I admit that even with the judgement we hv today 60 years after, a bit easier, they probably not achieved to hv air-superiority or share this one

rémi

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by RT

Nobody contest that the P51 was the second best fighter of WWII
remi

So what do you think was the best, then?

[Franek Grabowski]

Had the Western Allies no numerical superiority in aviation, they would win the airwar anyway. It would only take a little more time. Apart of that, Germans could build up their numbers as well, but they did not. Not the first case of their incompetence in strategical planning.

[George Hopp]

You're not thinking this through, Franek. If the Western Allies hadn't achieved air superiority when they did, there would have been no Normandy invasion, and the Soviets would ultimately have taken all of Germany, and with it western Europe.

[RT]

In it's class the P51 or the corsair, in the upper class the 262.

Franek, You are right they could increase nd increase but, is the victory worth of such expenses to put on the knee the victor ??, would people in a "democraty" accept that ? The planers were better for sure in a non-administred economy that in an administred one, like germany or russia

George, if german achieved air-superiority, in that game, they achieve it in whole europe, so russian stay quite around koursk, the later step if no decision on the track, is to make separate "waffen-stillstände'', or due to no offensive intiative from both side a de facto, waffen-stillstand

rémi

[Vati]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

Mustang did not win the war because of quantity but because of range and quality of a system they were part of. There were numerous dog fights in the later part of war when Allied aircraft were outnumbered, nonetheless beating the Germans. Luftwaffe, even if triple sized, was just enough hopeless, not to be able to win the air war. Rather low quality of their aircraft was just one of the factors.

Yeah and Spitfire won the BoB...