PR photo that almost stopped operation Market-Garden

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Dennis Peschier

I would advise “German Aroured Units at Arnhem, September 1944”by Marcel Zwarts.Dennis

Robert Kershaw's "It Never Snows in September" (Ian Allan) is also very good on the German side of the fighting, including the many "scratch" units involved.

[Col Ford]

To Kaki3152

MAJ GEN Rohmer RCAF flew Mustang Mk.1 aircraft, not Mk.1A. Only Two RAF Squadrons were flying Mustang Mk.1A aircraft from late January 1944 onwards, No.II(AC) Sqdn RAF and No.268 Sqdn. Both these units also later flew the Mustang Mk.II. All the other Allison engined Mustang Sqdns at the time were flying Mustang Mk1 aircraft.

To Adriano,

The element units of No.35(Recce) Wing of 2TAF which had the responsibility for coverage of the area of the Netherlands where Operation Market Garden took place received no special tasking for tactical or photographic reconnissance sorties in the area before the commencement of the operation. The first they new of the operation was when a pair of the Wing's Mustangs out on an early morning Tac/R was literally 'run down' by the approaching armada of troop carrying and glider towing aircraft. They maintained radio silence and reported the armada to the Senior Wing Intelligence Officer and the Officer Commanding the Wing. Their urgent inquiries launched with 84 Group HQ revealed 84 Group were as much in the dark as the Wing. For operational security reasons, 84 Group had not been informed of the impending operation within their area of responsibility. They had been vaguely informed that aircraft from 83 Group might be operating on 'their turf'. This information is recorded in Unit and Wing ORBS and from personal memories of surviving pilots from that time.

Interestingly enough, the taskings for photographic and tactical reconnaissance of the area went to No.34(Recce) and No.39(Recce) Wings who operated outside the operational area and under the control of 83 Group, who were more closely located with Montgomery's tactical HQ who were involved in planning Market Garden. So they had Tac/R and PR units who were not familiar with the area conducting special taskings for the operation, whereas the units that knew the area were literally kept in the dark until after the operation commenced.

If the reconnaissance photographs existed which Urquhart saw, they are likely to have come from one of the low level Tac/R units, or a PR unit that had a low level flight, such as No.16 Sqdn. High level PR would not have produced the type of photograph that is alluded to in Urquhart's recollections. If taken by such a unit the photographic information strip would have recorded information that basically recorded:
Negative Number/Roll or Sortie number/unit/ date/camera-lens/altitude. A pilot's name would not normally be recorded on the film strip for a PR or Tac/R unit for operational security grounds - if the photos fell into enemy hands it could identify the pilot who took them and if he were later shot down and made a PoW there could be consequences.

Regards,

[Six Nifty .50s]

Originally Posted by Col Ford

To Kaki3152

Interestingly enough, the taskings for photographic and tactical reconnaissance of the area went to No.34(Recce) and No.39(Recce) Wings who operated outside the operational area and under the control of 83 Group, who were more closely located with Montgomery's tactical HQ who were involved in planning Market Garden. So they had Tac/R and PR units who were not familiar with the area conducting special taskings for the operation, whereas the units that knew the area were literally kept in the dark until after the operation commenced.

If the reconnaissance photographs existed which Urquhart saw, they are likely to have come from one of the low level Tac/R units, or a PR unit that had a low level flight, such as No.16 Sqdn.

Interesting bit of information. This aspect of the battle has been vaguely covered in the studies I've read. Unfortunately the relevant Tac/R pictures may have been misplaced, classified, or intentionally removed from the correct filing systems by some higher Allied HQs.

By the way how do we obtain a copy of your book?

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Guys,
Thanks a lot for this vast volume of new information for me. I have already checked the life of Gen-Maj Rohmer, but his DFC citation does not mention the September flights, only his missions after D-Day.
Very interesting and intriguing that nobody saw those pictures after WW2. Were they "destroyed" or simply lost forever? There were at least 5 pictures shawing those SS Panzers ( I also do believe they were armored vehicles SdKz ).
I am diggesting those information and studying them slowly. Thanks a lot for everyone who helped to DISCOVER those misterious pics.
Friendly as ever
Adriano

[Col Ford]

For SIX NIFTY .50s

ADJIDAUMO 'Tail in Air' The History of No.268 Squadron Royal Air Force 1940-1946.

Copies of first limited run edition (2 Volumes), self published, held in collections of the IWM, RAFM, AWM, RAAFM, RNZAFM.

Copies of second limited run edition (2 Volumes), self published, available by special order from author.

Condensed, commercial edition (1 volume approx 300 pages) is still being worked on as time permits. Trying to logically and reasonably cut the 900 plus pages of the two volume edition down to just on 300 pages is taking longer then expected. That and current time constraints of 9 to 5 job as well.

For further information I can be contacted at:

cbford (usual middle bit) cyberoneDOTcomDOTau

Regards,

[Chris Going]

Adriano, any update to the Arnhem Bibliography should include the enormous two-volume work 'Market Garden Then and Now' Vols 1 and 2, published by After the Battle Magazine a couple of years ago. One of the most effective image researchers there is, David List, was on the trail of both ground and air photographic material and his thoughts on the topic are always worth reading.

My own thoughts, for what they are worth, is that the relevant imagery you are seeking will have been taken by 16 Sdn, flying from Northolt and using forward facing oblique 'F24' cameras. Between Sep 1 and c Sep 17 this detatchment flew at least 16 sorties, and the prints I have seen from this detatchment all bear N (for Northolt) and then the sortie Nr from 1. So -wherever they are, look for the N.

Shortly afterwards these cans of film will have showed up at ACIU Medmenham, Bucks, where they will have been logged into the Benson Film store while a print set will have gone to the ACIU Print Library. Day-by-day logs of was taken the previous day was created by the Medmenham DIO. These summaries are supplemented by Periodic 'Overseas Summaries' from the Middle East and the Far East as material is received from those theatres. They are in the UKNA (UK National Archives). More importantly, check Keele's holdings. They have some 40,000 sorties. I wrote a report on Keele once, and during that work made an index of them. I need to make it fully searchable, and will one day. I can find a lot of things including a lot of sorties flown by 16 Sdn but not, alas, anything with the N prefix.

I don't think theres a plot to remove embarassing material from the files.

best


Chris Going

[Six Nifty .50s]

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

Very interesting and intriguing that nobody saw those pictures after WW2. Were they "destroyed" or simply lost forever?

Or pilfered.

More than 60 years have passed since the pictures were made. If they exist as you described them, are readily accessible, and filed correctly, then someone should have found them by now. It's probably safe to say that very many interested parties have searched for those images since 1945.