ID of White 3 of 4./JG26 Bf109E possible ID near Vitry-en-Artois, near Douai, France?

[Pieter H]

Larry,

I can not claim to have definitive proof for either of the theories, but I see at least a few arguments in support of your theory that this is the a/c of Obfw Heinz Heidenpeter that came down May 17.

1. The landscape definitely looks more like the north of France than "40 km N. of Paris". It is flat, almost tree-less, quite in contrast to the region N. of Paris with plenty of hills and woods. Also the region with the mining "terrils" (the french word for these artificial mountains of cole slacks) is a broad belt going from around Béthune, and then through Lens and Douai towards Belgium around Charleroi. Not being from that area it is impossible to say which Terril and which village church those on the picture might be, but the likelihood of being around Douai is much larger than that of the area of Paris.
2. Secondly the number of victory bars. Taking the list on Tony Woods web site, I find no claims of Heinz Heidenpeter. However, this is the "corrected and cleaned-up" list, and I can easily imagine that Heidenpeter had claimed one aircraft in the first week of the campaign. Wilhelm Roth however had already 4 claims by the time he was shot down: on 18, 19 and 29 May, and June 1. It would be highly unlikely that he had not taken time to have them painted on his a/c. So his Messerschmidt should have shown at least 3-4 victory bars by June 3.

So I would say you do have a point.
Kind regards,

Pieter

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Thanks Pieter, your points are all part of the reason why I disagree with a location "40 km N. of Paris," which would be Roth. I know that Roth, after returning from temporary captivity, has been identified with flying "White 3," but this was many months after the events of the FC. Captions accompanying the many photos of this aircraft on eBay over the past couple of years seem to point to "near Douai." The pile of coal mining tailings (small mountains you called a coal-slack) is very large and would have been very, very prominant from many kilometers away at the time, alhtough it may not even be in evidence today. The rock and dirt could have been used as fill on a road or railroad bed, or just used as building gravel and it may not look today anything like it did back then. Probably only someone local from the Douai area is going to be able to solve this one. Hopefully, they can even find the small village in the background, which would give us the exact location. I hope that we have some French Board visitors who can help with this. This one can be correctly identified. We just need some luck here. Maybe someone at the local historical museum in Douai might be able to help if we can figure out how to bring them into the problem.

Regards,

[Peter Cornwell]

Stig,

Don Caldwell is listed as a member of this forum.

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Larry Hickey

Hello,

... The pile of coal mining tailings (small mountains you called a coal-slack) is very large and would have been very, very prominant from many kilometers away at the time, alhtough it may not even be in evidence today. The rock and dirt could have been used as fill on a road or railroad bed, or just used as building gravel and it may not look today anything like it did back then. Probably only someone local from the Douai area is going to be able to solve this one. Hopefully, they can even find the small village in the background, which would give us the exact location. ...
Regards,

Hi Larry,

Not exactly for the first part: it's still there! at the entrance of Douai, nearby the highway.
And yes, it's not Roth's plane.

Cheers, Franck.