Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E

[GrahamB]

Hi Frank,

quite right - but the 'official' name for RLM 74 is given (depending on source, such as the Monogram Painting Guide, Eagle Editions, Ullmann, Kookaburra series etc etc) as Graugrun or Dunkelgrau (grunlich) [note, rpelces typo 'Dunkelgrun in first version of post]. My point was (is) that it was by no means a definite blue-grey as seen in several photos and therefore cannot account for, or be used explain away these schemes (also with a paler blue-grey on the upper surfaces). The other stock 'excuse' or 'put-down' is that it was poorly mixed standard colour. Hmmmm..

Cheers

GrahamB

[Graham Boak]

The main reason for discounting 74/75 is that these colours are not known (add emphasis here perhaps?) to have been in existence before 1941. Given the references to blues and various greys, it does seem more likely that 74/75 evolved from experimental hues, rather than being continually (and varyingly) misreported. On the other hand, ruling them out completely may be going too far, given that a 109 in dark grey was reported shot down in Belgium in May 1940.

I do feel, and Ken Merrick posted something similar on one site, that any greenness in 74 has been grossly exaggerated. (Particularly in those *** In Action specials, with Luftwaffe fighters in RAF Day Fighter scheme!) I don't think that the title of the colour would prevent it appearing blue on period colour film taken under a clear sky, though whether it would look blue to an RAF Intelligence officer is clearly another matter.

It has been suggested, rather desperately perhaps, that French paint stocks were used. Well, there was a rather natty blue-grey, was there not?

My conclusion, for what it is worth, is that these 109s were not painted in 74/75, but in colours remarkably like them. Maybe a little bit bluer.

[GrahamB]

Hi,

Graham, what on earth has the 'title' of a colour got to do with anything in your argument. My point was that it merely confirms the fact (backed up by the various colour charts - for what they are worth, considering the variation in some colours between publishers) that RLM 74 was not a blue-grey. Are you saying that all neutral greys change to strong blue-grey in WW2 colour prints? Some desperation here to avoid the issue I think.

Why can't anyone just accept anything other than what they are told by 'authority'?

Cheers

Graham

[Graham Boak]

In the colour chips I have seen (Reis, Kookaburra, and the recent Merrick), and in various high-quality reproductions of original colour photos, it does not look at all green to me. Those who have seen many original examples of the colour on surviving parts, or have studied recent colour mixes to original formulae, say that it does not look at all green to them, except perhaps only very slightly when new. The colour has also been referred to more simply as Dunkelgrau, but never (to my knowledge) as Dunkelgrun. My point was, and is, that the title has mislead others into picturing it as a definite green.

As for accepting what is told by authority - that I bounce straight back. What outside of "authority" supports your apparent belief in a green appearance? Certainly nothing of what I have seen, or what has been put forward by people whose judgement I have come to respect over many years.

Yes, a neutral grey will take on a blue tinge when photographed under a blue sky. You write as though this idea is new to you? If so, I regret I can claim no originality in the suggestion, as it has been noticed since colour photography began, as just one of the ways that ambient light can distort colour reproduction - or, perhaps, mislead the casual observer. I mentioned it to show how an observer could be misled from photographs into assuming a blue scheme where none existed, but this would be unlikely to influence an observer of a crashed aircraft. If the RAF Intelligence reports speak of blue uppersurfaces, as they do, then they are unlikely to be reporting the standard versions of 74 and 75. However greenish these may have been.