JU88A Loss 18.10.40 KG51

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, all

The loss as recorded by GenQu6Abt is:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=116011

Now, Peter, if you have access to the NVM, it should be fairly easy to check the Erkennungsmarken for the crew. Also, often there is an entry for either the previous unit posting or the peace-time unit posting.

And that a crew was put together from members taken from other Staffeln of a Gruppe is not that curious.. happened all the time, and the Stab flight frequently 'borrowed' other crews to fill it up, not all Stab units could muster a full Stab flight at any given time. In fact I would be rather puzzled if all the members of the crews in the Stab flight belonged to the Stab of the Gruppe.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Peter Cornwell]

Steve,

If the sources you quote give the unit as 4./KG51 then, yes, they are both wrong I'm afraid.

ID details from the NVM are as follows: (Beo) Oberlt Hellmuth von CLAER B 65118 -4-, (Ff) Lt Siefried SONNTAG B 65110 -68-, (Bf) Oberfw Anton STEGMULLER B 65118 -7-, (Bm) Fw Heinrich MARTE B 65118 -33-. 65110 being the ID of Stab III./KG51 and 65118 that for Stab II./KG51. No further clues as to any previous postings.

Andreas,

Yes, I am aware that Stabsschwarm crews were often 'scratch' though it seems this was apparently fairly common practice across the whole of II./KG51 during this period, and possibly due to losses.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi,

thanks for the information, my loss record updated accordingly.

Andreas B

[steve sheridan]

Hiya Peter and Andreas,
Thank you for the confirmation of Sonntags crew and Erkennungsmarken details. It would appear to be the case with II/KG51 using " scratch " crews, i see from another loss dated 11/12.1.41 that a StabII/KG51 a/c was being flown by a pilot from 6/KG51 this being 9K+DC W.Nr 6020, flown by Fw Hans-Georg Bluscher. Again the source is Dierich's German KG51 edition, although again the credibility of this book is open to debate!

Best regs,
Steve.