B-24 shot down by Me-262 Photo!

[Mark Steinitz]

There appear to be two candidates for shooting down the B-24 (44-50838) shown in the picture in this thread. According to Theo Boiten and Martin Bowman in Battles with the Luftwaffe: The Bomber Campaign Against Germany, 1942-45 (2001), p. 221, former JG 54 experte Lt. Rudi Rademacher shot it down. In their book The Me 262 Combat Diary (1990), p. 223, authors John Foreman and S.E.Harvey say the victor is believed to be another III./JG 7 pilot, Lt. Fritz Mueller.

Though at odds on who downed the plane in the picture, both sources agree that Rademacher and Mueller were the only III./JG 7 pilots who brought down Liberators that day and that they both used R4M rockets.

Boiten and Bowman say that Mueller brought down "Trouble N Mind," also of the 448 BG. I note that the book by Foreman and Harvey (p. 222) contains a fairly detailed account of Mueller's attack that says he saw six men bail out of the Liberator he attacked. Boiten and Bowman say that six men parachuted from "Trouble N Mind," not 44-50838, which had only one survivor.

[DCFoster]

This evening in a telephone conversation with Lt. Col. (Ret.) Harold Dorfman USAF he commented on the photograph that is the subject of this discussion thread. At that time in 8th, then Navigator Lt. Harold Dorfman was requested by a pilot to fly a mission in place of another Navigator who was nervous due to it being his 35th and final mission. Since the other navigator was a good friend of his he agreed on the condition he would not replace him, but would fly with him to ensure he did his duties correctly. Thus and I quote he was not “officially on the plane” as a member of that crew and even though it was his 26th mission, it did not count. He still recalls the Me 262 flying into the formation and the mission details are noted in his diary from the 448th. He noted in his diary that all the crew members were lost and didn’t know one survived until today. He did take his camera along and took the photograph; http://www.flickr.com/photos/21734563@N04/sets/72157603453115241/detail/
This is one of several combat photos he took during his tenure with the 448th.

Lt. Dorfman was an avid photographer before and during the WWII. Not being allowed to bring a camera to England he asked for advice in New York where to purchase a camera in London. He was able to take a roll of film to England. Once there he was able to get out of uniform and go to a camera shop and ask if they had a camera that would fit the film. At that time Lt. Dorfman was the top navigator in the 8th and word got out to Col. Charles Westover he was taking pictures while flying missions. Col. Westover was impressed with the photographs but due to regulations personal cameras were not permitted on missions, so Lt. Dorfman was made an official photographer with a military issued camera. However it became difficult to take photos and navigate at the same time, so he returned to being a navigator and Col. Westover unofficially allowed him to take photos with his old camera or what camera he was able to trade for in the London Shop. It was fantastic conversation that I'll never forget, even though he barley touched on his experiences during the war.

All of his photos and diary (book) are copyrighted. However copies were donated to the 8th Air Force Museum.

Thanks for all the help.

David Foster

[Uncle Charley]

It appears from the information I have that my Uncle (Charles H. Daman) was a crew member on the B-24 in the photograph. I am interested in any info concerning that event.

Keith Daman

[Nick Hector]

Rob,

On my listing for that date, I have surmised that the claiming pilot was Ehrler, the allied plane B-24M-10-FO 44-50838? - Cut in half by an Me262 over Ludwigslust.

Nick