Yet ANOTHER German nickname for the IL 2...

[Rasmussen]

Oh mann,

boandlgramer.

"gewiß" --- dabei gewesen??? Gewiß. Was aber am falschen Wortstamm auch nichts ändert.

(an German reaction on a german answer - I think uninteresting for our English speaking friends ;-) )

Thanks Christer, an wonderful example for that what I meant.

[Dénes Bernád]

A (semi) off-topic question: why was the Fw 190 called in English 'The Butcher Bird' (see, for example, subtitle of Green and Swanborough's book)? I think the name originated for similar reasons...

[NickM]

Denes:

As I recall, the nickname for the FW, "Butcher Bird" is referring to a small (probably smaller than a dove), compact, aggressive carnivorous bird known as a Shrike; it has been known to attack & overpower rodents, small birds, snakes, lizards, frogs, etc...it has this charming little habit of impaling it's prey on thorns and sharp twigs; the 'hanging meat' image is what spawned the nickname 'butcher bird'; so no doubt someone felt the FW was a great example of being a potent weapon in a small compact package & no doubt thought naming after the Shrike was appropriate;


NickM

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád

A (semi) off-topic question: why was the Fw 190 called in English 'The Butcher Bird' (see, for example, subtitle of Green and Swanborough's book)? I think the name originated for similar reasons...

I'd always understood that it was a translation of the name that Focke-Wulf gave the aircraft: "Wuerger."

[Boandlgramer]

how is that bird called in english ?

[Ruy Horta]

However you argue it, German and English are related languages and the root word "Schlacht" relates to "slaughter." In English, a slaughterman kills animals, a butcher cuts up the meat from there on. Obviously the two trades overlapped.

Although I am not a linguist, German and Dutch are pretty similar, more so than English and German.

Schlacht may be more closely related to Schlagen or to hit (we in dutch have slaan and slag, to hit and strike - the latter corresponds perfectly with ground attack or groundstrike).

Not field of slaughter, but field of battle (hitting field).

Even the English Slain may be more closely related to hitting than slaying.

hitting, striking, slaying or slaughtering all the same root

[John Beaman]

Boandlgramer :

You are right. The "butcher bird", which is what Wurger means, is called the Shrike in England and America. They are called this because they catch their prey, usually large insects or the occasional mouse, and "store" it by stricking on a thorn bush or locust tree. Hence, the name butcher.

[Boandlgramer]

Originally Posted by Rasmussen

Oh mann,

boandlgramer.

"gewiß" --- dabei gewesen???

freilich, ich war genauso dabei wie du.alter frontkämpfer

noch eine kleine anmerkung zum "schwarzen tod".
jan boger beschreibt da in seinem buch spezial/elite einheiten(einige nahmen am WW2 teil )
da wird die sowjetische marineinfanterie, die " Morskaya Pyechota " von den deutschen landsern " schwarzer tod " genannt.

evtl. wurden ja noch mehr "schwarzer tod" genannt. wer weiss , wer weiss.

[Boandlgramer]

Rasmussen,
i guess , you know some wehrmachts veterans.
ask them about the " black death " or about some other "wellknown" nicknames.
(if you have the time, of course)
you get firsthand opinions .

[Ruy Horta]

Isn't the whole Fw 190 Butcher Bird related to the (semi-)official Würger name, and unrelated to the term Schlachtflugzeug?

Würger literally being a shrike or butcher bird.

Of course it is likely that the later use as a Schlachtflugzeug may have influenced the choice towards Butcher Bird.

BTW, did RAF pilots ever call the Fw 190 Butcher bird, or is this purely post war translating?

(which reminds me of the age old "Fokkers flying Messerschmitts" joke).

But more interesting, Boandl, in your conversations with Wehrmacht veterans, did they indeed sneer at so many of these nicknames? To be honest, I have been proclaiming in the past that most of the nicknames that were attributed by the allies as being german, did not feel right. Personally I've yet find most if not all of them in reading.

Although I might understand if some of these attributed names are simply misunderstood.

Schlachtflugzeug (already discussed)

If I remmber correctly you germans use Pest in a similar way as we do in Dutch: Pestflugzeug!

Although I hate assumptions, it sounds much more likely that a couple of Landser sitting in a trench would call Sturmoviks a Plague or Pestflugzeugen, instead of the more poetic Black Death. Same source - The Plague - but very different meaning.

I find a similar approach for the famous Fork Tail Devil also more likely - Verteufeltes Flugzeug or Teufelsflugzeug (don't know if these are correct German). Perhaps some Landser did not use Doppelrumpf, but Gabelschwanz - Das verteufelte Flugzeug mit dem Gabelschwanz?

Apologies if I am making big german writing and spelling errors, but at school I was too lazy to learn my idiom and grammer (oh, I hated those rows).