Bf-110B down 3rd Sept 1939 near Warsaw

[John Beaman]

Cool it, guys! Let's keep civil and focused without the side comments..........

[Marius]

On p. 209 it is clearly stated that the victim of Januszewicz was Mazurowski.

The name "Mazurowski" was found on a picture. That`s all on p.209. Where are the "great details" of the German crew or their mission on this day?!

Thanks for help.

Marius

[robert]

Marius,

we know that Franek didn`t read carefully the book of J.Cynk. There is only account from Polish side and something like this about involved German crew:

I`m immediately taking our technical officer and we are driving to the crash site. The bodies of two enemy airmen are two groups of meat lying some 150 meters of wrack. Their overalls are burning but we have water and could distinguish the fires. We are pulling their documents and wallets. I found one photo – good looking blonde guy in uniform of Luftwaffe NCO in garden. Beside him a young woman with child – apparently his wife. His name is: Mazurowsky…”

But no word about serial, markings, flight and exactly names and ranks of these two airmen. Marius, you was first who put the details from both sides together.

Regards

Robert

[GrzegorzM]

Hey, does it mean that Marius knows the serial and markings of that Messer? Could you share?
And is the "B" version sure? What is the source of that information?
It is very interesting, fact that Januszewicz went to the crash site suggests that also on the Polish side there was possiblity of detailed account.
In fact I remember some relation from that fight by Januszewicz, who describes the whole combat, and also I remember Januszewicz's mistake, as he wrote that Messer was powered by Diesel engine. Was it in Marius' article about Brygada Poscigowa in Militaria XX wieku magazine?
TIA!
Grzegorz

[robert]

Hi,

such details like markings and serial are still unknown. But we know the time of German missions (there two formations) and all losses.
BTW it was Bf110C. The Bf110B were used only by the 3/ZG76.

Regards

Robert

[Marius]

The Bf110B were used only by the 3/ZG76.

Robert,
could you provide us with the source for this much questionable information?

Regards,
Marius

[robert]

Marius,

you have my PM.

Robert

[Franek Grabowski]

The original statement was as follows: 'according to Marius Emmerling 'Luftwaffe nad Polską 1939' tom I - Bf.110B from 3. Staffel I.(Z)/LG 1 was shot down over Zielonka (w gminie Kobyłka) by CO of 111 EM por. Wojciech Januszewicz.'
The victim of Januszewicz was identified just after the combat, and this information was repeated in several books, published years before Emmerling's one, including Cynk's volume. Therefore any claim that it was Emmerling who identified opponents is just ridiculous.
Cynk's book does include a lengthy account of Januszewicz and it is a matter of fact that Polish accounts are more numerous and more detailed comparing to the German ones.

[robert]

Hi,

Cynk`s book is nothing more than one-side story with many mistakes concerning Luftwaffe losses and activities. Also many details e.g. evacuation of damaged P-11 from the III/3 from Polish side are missing. So it`s a good source but it leaves many gaps in our aviation history.

Regards

Robert

[Marius]

t is a matter of fact that Polish accounts are more numerous

Maybe yes, but the accounts are in 95% or more just individual memories written long after and they are worthless without documents of higher staffs. Therefore German documents are most decisive here.

and more detailed comparing to the German ones.

Nonsense. According to these "more detailed accounts" the aerial combat between I.(Z)/LG 1 and dyon III/1 on 3.9.1939 took place after 10.00 hours (!???????????). Sorry Franek, but your comments are ridiculous again.

Cynk`s book is nothing more than one-side story with many mistakes concerning Luftwaffe losses and activities.

The author is more believing personal memories (with many mistakes) than original documents and that`s the biggest problem. For example plk. Pawlikowski wrote a report at 9.15 hours (after the combat), but the author means the time cannot be true (!?????????????).

Regards,
Marius