Photos 5-4 - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

edwest · #1 5th May 2008, 01:29

Foute Man · #2 5th May 2008, 02:04

Aloha

What's the first and the second letter of this aircraft ID? GR suggest aircraft G from 7th staffel

obdl3945 · #3 5th May 2008, 04:22

Hi...

Nice photo... an early version He111P. My initial thought was 'L1' (Lehrgeschwader 1), but admittedly, the character immediately to the left of the fuselage cross looks more like a letter 'F'. Bearing this in mind, I then thought of '2F', which was apparently an early coding for II.Gruppe/ KG28 up until September 1939, thereafter becoming II.Gruppe/KG54. This Gruppe continued to use '2F' after its redesignation until March 1940 when it began using the more familiar 'B3' code. The only problem, however, is the point you make about 7.Staffel which, of course, would have been part of III.Gruppe, not II.Gruppe.

Regards...

edwest · #4 5th May 2008, 04:32

I seem to be seeing LF. Not sure if that works.

Regards,
Ed

obdl3945 · #5 5th May 2008, 04:49

Hi, Ed...

Yes, I thought about that possibility, too. Wasn't sure about it being completely alphabetic, though, given that the second part of the code seems to indicate a front line unit. I suppose there's always the outside chance of it having been 'acquired' from elsewhere, and still to have its full codes applied in relation to its new unit.

Regards...

Foute Man · #6 5th May 2008, 15:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by obdl3945

Hi...

Nice photo... an early version He111P. My initial thought was 'L1' (Lehrgeschwader 1), but admittedly, the character immediately to the left of the fuselage cross looks more like a letter 'F'. Bearing this in mind, I then thought of '2F', which was apparently an early coding for II.Gruppe/ KG28 up until September 1939, thereafter becoming II.Gruppe/KG54. This Gruppe continued to use '2F' after its redesignation until March 1940 when it began using the more familiar 'B3' code. The only problem, however, is the point you make about 7.Staffel which, of course, would have been part of III.Gruppe, not II.Gruppe.

Regards...

A theory:
According to this site there was a III Gruppe KG 28 from february 1st 1940 untill juli 9th 1940. If 2F was KG 28 code it could explain this aircraft being 2F+GR as a 7./KG 28 aircraft in spring 1940.

obdl3945 · #7 5th May 2008, 16:36

Hi...

Yes, I take your point. However, it was only II.Gruppe/KG28 (Staffel I/D letters M,N & P) which transferred to KG54 and retained the old '2F' coding until March 1940, when it was drawn into line and given the standard KG54 'B3' coding, according to Barry Rosch's Luftwaffe Codes, Marking and Units, 1939-1945 (Schiffer). The remainder of KG28 kept its '2F' coding until receiving its new '1T' code on 15 January, 1940, so presumably from December 1939 until March 1940, '2F' would only represent II.Gruppe/KG54, and would have covered the 4.to 6.Staffeln, not 7.Staffel.

This site also states that III.Gruppe/KG28 was largely formed from new in February 1940, with only its 8.Staffel being drawn from another unit, namely KG53. Therefore, I imagine that in the Spring of 1940, a 7.Staffel/KG28 machine would have been coded 1T+GR. If, for the sake of conversation, this Gruppe had carried an old code over, then it could only have been the 8.Staffel which could have done this, and would have been A1+GS.

However, just to really put the cat amongst the pigeons, it's not inconcievable that it is an entirely alphabetic coding on an operational front line aircraft. Many of the Zerstörer aircraft of 13.(Z)/JG5 are well-documented as carrying fully alphabetic codes, one example being a Bf110F - LN+RR - with the last letter 'R' being completely at odds with its 13.Staffel status.

Regards...

Foute Man · #8 5th May 2008, 18:09

My apologies, apparantly I forgot to include the link to this site: http://www.ww2.dk/air/kampf/kg28.htm.

Thanks for your reply

PS: is this A1+BT wknr 4546(?) 4566(?) from 9./KG 53 a H-6?

link to the picture: http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...g?t=1209639222

obdl3945 · #9 5th May 2008, 19:12

Hi...

I would venture to suggest yes. I'm not clued up on the Werk Nummern allocations, but the width of the propellor blades, the small mirror above the cockpit, the ventral gondola glazing and the early-style rear covering on the dorsal gun position would make me think it's an H-6.

Regards

RT · #10 5th May 2008, 19:44

4566 made a forced landing with III.KG53 in Jan.42 looks not much later or not much prior the picture was taken..

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