allied pilots in luftwaffe

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Ruy Horta

Well he has a point since these would still be considered as Volksdeutschen, unlike for instance dutch volunteers who served with the Waffen SS.

I think they could qualify for Reichsdeutschers. The answer is of course in their personal papers.

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

I would not call them Brasilians, rather Germans with Brasilian citizenship or place of birth. There is a big difference between nationality and citizenship.

Franek, you just put in words exactly what I intended to note.
Nationality and citizenship are not necessarily the same, particularly in regards to Central and Eastern Europe.

[Robert Reid]

Not Pilot, but Friedrich Gustav Hansen born Melrose Scotland 9 jan 1913, KIA 9 jan 1941, JU88 from Stab I KG30, crashed Breda Holland (radio Operator) father German, mother Scottish, taken to Germany 1920, Father very bitter about treatment during ww1. Brother William (Willi) Wilson Hamsen died Prien 3 May 1945 of wounds ? unit buried Traunstein.
A friend was at School with them 1919-20 in Melrose Scotland.

Hansen Family last Address Magdeburg in May 1945
Nothing about them in German military/Luftwaffe records except date of death and crash report for 9 jan 1941 (from Chris Goss and Jap Woortman)

Anyone Have any info on KG30 at Eindhoven late 1940/41. Had contact but
no response from address emailed to me last year

Robert

[edwest]

Some information can be found in the book "In the Skies of Europe" by Hans Werner Neulen. Text is English.



Usual disclaimer,
Ed

[brewerjerry]

Hi,
For others that might be interested found this site during my research
http://jpgleize.club.fr/aces/ww2luft.htm
Cheers
Jerry

[edwest]

Wow! Thanks Jerry.



Ed

[Mikkel Plannthin]

Just some bits of information on the Danish pilots mentioned in the list in Jerry's link.

On Peter Horn: Information on this pilot is very scarce. He is mentioned in Neulen's book and in the victory list of Aders/Held. Jagdgeschwader 51 ”Mölders“. Eine Chronik. Berichte, Erlebnisse, Dokumente. Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart. To my knowledge - and I would be happy to be corrected - that is about it. He survived the war.

On Poul Sommer: The possiblity of 6 victories is mentioned in some sources, but to my knowledge 3 is the more likely number. To be more precise a Kittyhawk (sometimes labelled a Spitfire) on 23rd Oct. 1942, a Spitfire on 28th Oct 1942 while serving 4./JG27 and a Spitfire on 20th March 1943 while serving Gruppenstab II./JG27. A bit more information and a photo can be found in Jochen Prien et al. Messerschmitt Bf 109 im Einsatz bei der II./JG27. In May 1943, he became Staffelkapitän of 10./JG27 when a fourth gruppe was added, but returned to Denmark later that summer to become leader of a special Luftwaffe unit that guarded Luftwaffe installations in Denmark. He died in 1979.

Regards, Mikkel

[Jaap Woortman]

Originally Posted by brewerjerry

Hi,
For others that might be interested found this site during my research
http://jpgleize.club.fr/aces/ww2luft.htm
Cheers
Jerry

In many of these aces lists we see the same nonsense. Also here.
Was Godefroy a Dutch ace. I don't think so. If he was an ace, he was a Canadian ace! See also the story about Hugh Godefroy by Almer Regter at 'WWII ace stories.
Was Kesseler a Dutch ace with 16 victories? Some years ago I did some research on him to find out. Here is the result.

G.A.Kesseler a Dutch ace?
For me it started with a question at the Luftwaffe Forum 12 O’Clock High(TOCH) at March 11th, 1999. “Who knows something of the Dutch ace Gerald A.Kesseler”. He claimed 16 victories. Kesseler was also mentioned at the Fighter Pilot ‘Ace’ list of Al Bowers at http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/aces.html

But who was Gerald A.Kessler? We have found him as Gerardus Adrianus Kesseler in the book ‘The Royal Netherlands Military Flying School’ by Ward, Boer and Casius at page 150 and 224. I quote:

- Kesseler, G.A. landstorm vaandrig. Gebrevetterd 13 maart 1943. B-25 opleiding en is op 17

mei 1943 ontheven wegens medische redenen en heringedeeld Supply 27 september 1943.

- Kesseler, G.A. res.2e lt. Vlieger wnr. 1 mei 1944 overgeplaatst Netherlands Purchasing

Commission New York.

In translation G.A.Kesseler has received his wings at March 13th, 1943. He was in training for the B-25 and released of the training at May 17, 1943, for medical reasons. He was transferred as 2nd Lt. Pilot Observer to the Netherlands Purchasing Commission in New York, USA.

He will have obtained his 16 victories at the bar in New York or between the sheets, but he was not a Dutch ace!

[brewerjerry]

Hi All,
Many thanks for the input, so the site info may have to be checked first.
I suppose it all depends on where the site builders got the info from and if it was cross checked, but any info is a starting point, on a subject that seems to have so little written about it.
Cheers
Jerry