Me109G-10 Dual Production Plates

[Tomislav Haramincic]

The two plates caused a lot of confusion in the past. As Mike and Artie already explained, the G-10 was a new built airframe and it represented the last G model incorporating all the "improvements" of the previous models (G-6 & G-14).
The second plate on the Bf 109G-10 WNr.610937, with the inscription 109143G14U4 127914 is a fuselage subassembly plate. 109143 means 109.143 which is the Baugruppe designation for all G-6 and G-14 fuselages, and so very probably also for the G-10 because the fuselage shells are identical for all those three types. G14U4 indicates that this fuselage was probably made for the 51x xxx WNr-series bulit by WNF, but never got to the G-14 assembly lines. 127914 is just the fuselage subassembly number. The simplified subassembly plate is characteristic for the late WNF production.
IMHO, this fuselage was just one of many preproduced fuselages and other subassembly parts that weren't used immediately on the assembly lines, but when the production changed to G-10's the preproduced fuselages (as they are the same) were normally used for further production.
So this G-10 hasn't got a used G-14 fuselage, but a brand new fuselage which was only intended for the G-14 production.
The Änderungsstufe plate was added to indicate subsequent changes that might appear during the operational use of the aircraft.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by stephen f. polyak

I believe the word "änderungsstufe" roughly translates to "changes". Is that correct?

It means a little more, I think. It means "alteration level/stage" and I have an example of an Fw 190 "Receiving "alteration 137" which I would guess was a modification specified for all aircraft of a given model (or performing a given role).

[harrison987]

HI Tomislav!

Question...

"The Änderungsstufe plate was added to indicate subsequent changes that might appear during the operational use of the aircraft"

Only dates were added into this spot, as shown on the G-10 here in the USA...so if it was intended to indicate changes, why only show a date? Seems reduntant, unless the chnages were indicated as well. Also, why were these plate not found on all G-10's? and why ONLY G-10's?

Seems odd, no?

[Grzegorz Cisek]

I looked into Messerschmitt JaPo Bf 109G-10/U4 (page 9). Here is an explanation of this second plate used on G-10 version. The word “Anderungsstufe” means exactly “level of changes”. This plate pointed to the dates of changes made during production period. To put in other words it meant that all by date actual modifications had been done. This explanation sounds reasonable.
But I can’t still believe that all defected or damaged aircraft were repaired to their original version. It would be nonsense. Moreover it would be very often impossible to do because parts which would be necessary to repair a particular plane might have been inaccessible. Certainly all repaired planes have been upgraded to new versions. I can’t imagine that the old G-6 and G-14 parts in such a country like Germany were simply recycled. I don’t believe that all G-10 planes were completely new and the factories used to their production new parts only. Good example of that is “yellow 11” (Gigi) from II./JG 52. It is evidently a mixture of G-6 and G-10. Such a mixture had to be done in a factory only and not in any case as a field modification.

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Originally Posted by harrison987

Question...

"The Änderungsstufe plate was added to indicate subsequent changes that might appear during the operational use of the aircraft"

Only dates were added into this spot, as shown on the G-10 here in the USA...so if it was intended to indicate changes, why only show a date? Seems reduntant, unless the chnages were indicated as well. Also, why were these plate not found on all G-10's? and why ONLY G-10's?

Hi Mike and Grzegorz,

Mike, thats a really good question. If I remember correctly, on the Änderungsstufe plate of WNr.610937 only one field was stamped with the 12.44 date. in the JaPo book the possibility was mentioned that this date could represent the date of production, which in the case of 610937 could be true. I have never seen a plate with two or more fields stamped, so I guess we can't really determine if the fields were only date stamped without the indicated changes or with the changes. An other explanation could be that the 12.44 was the date of the U4 modificaton. On the other hand, all of the WNF produced G-10's were U4's and the modification was already done during production, so IMHO there was actually no need to specially express the date of this modification. I've looked through a few photos and I think that even not all DIANA prodused G-10 had that second plate. It would be nice to know if ERLA produced G-10/R6's had such or similar plates.

[Graham Boak]

Certainly all repaired planes have been upgraded to new versions.

I see no reason for being so dogmatic. AIthough it may not have been possible to restore damaged aircraft to their historic "as delivered" condition, neither would it have been practical to bring all such up to the very latest standards. Whatever the pressure for new aircraft in the frontline, there is an equal demand for airframes in the training and other second-line roles, for which a lower level of performance is required and used/tired airframes would be perfectly acceptable. A G-6 with DB605A would do perfectly well, possibly even releasing new G-10s for the front line.

[Grzegorz Cisek]

Hi Graham,
Generally you are right. But as you mentioned to restore aircraft to their original condition original parts were needed. It was no reason to produce old parts for damaged aircraft and restore damaged aircraft to training tasks when you had in stock to disposal a lot of out of date planes. Luftwaffe needed more and more modern planes and all parts which were useful to produce new aircraft were used to this purpose. It is impossible to assume that rare in the second half of 1944 in Germany metal parts were used to restore training aircraft and in contrary modern aircraft were built of wood.

[harrison987]

Hi Grzegorz,

I am familiar with the JaPo book...

ALL G-10's were made new, not from damaged, repaired, or older airframes. Also, not all damaged or defective 109's were repaired, nor were they upgraded to new versions. There were repair facilities...however the level or repair was most likely only enough to get it in the air.

DIANA had a repair facility, but those were only for airframes which were damaged while still in the hands of the manufacturer...such as problems during test flight, US attack on trains while in transport, etc.

Older G6 and G-14 airframes were not recycled into newer aircraft.

"Yellow 11" is the only example with evidence of an older tail new tail, and as all G-10's were made new, it was concluded that the modification done was most likely to get it into the air to the Neubiberg to surrender to the US and escape the Russians.

Field modification did include tail replacement, and repairs like that have been known to happen in the field quite regularly. If you have a damaged tail on an otherwise airworthy airplane, you install a good tail from an unairworthy aircraft. The tail attaches with 6 bolts if I remember correctly...so it is a very easy installation.

[harrison987]

Hi Tomislav,

That is correct...only some G-10's from DIANA had the second plate...

Originally I was concluding that the second plate was to indicate a "level of change" to the aircraft, done due to a bad test flight, or damage while still in the hands of the manufacture (while in transport, etc.). It would have been a good reference for the test pilot who sent the airplane back to manufacture for repair, to see a "change" indicated...knowing that the problems he pointed out were in-fact repaired and not overlooked.

Of course..checking my photo reference I have found unfinished airframes from DIANA that had that plate...so that probably rules out my theory...

Mike

[Grzegorz Cisek]

Hi Harrison987,
I think that this problem is not so simple. During the second half of 1944 and in the beginning of 1945 there were a lot of damaged aircraft in hands of Germans. Tell me if you know what was the destiny of useful parts (airframes, wings) from these aircraft. You know that to their production were used rare materials. Reparation of Bf 109G-6 to Bf 109G-6 in 1944/45 only to get it in the air did not get any sense.