Etampes, 3 June 1940

[Franek Grabowski]

For some reason the thread was closed, but a reply is needed to the last post.
Polish pilots known to take part in combat were Karubin, Krasnodębski and Zumbach. Undercarriage of Krasnodębski's aircraft did not retract, and he was unable to fight. Zumbach had stoppage of machine guns, and likely due to inertia of gun system typical for MS.406C-1, he was unable to engage the enemy successfully, being engaged by Me 110s at any time he attempted to fire. Karubin scored one Me 110, but it was credited to Balmer, thus causing anger amongst Polish pilots. I cannot say why Avions credit Karubin with a victory. Zumbach also noted that French pilots followed a solitary German plane but did not engage, but one, the main force attacking Etampes, and consisting of about 20 aircraft.
Commanders of GC I/55 were Cdt Cdt Danton Merlia, Thomme and Rabatel (from handwritten text, so possibly spelling errors), so it ishard to say there were only French NCOs.
Also, at Etampes there were about three FK-58s attached to the flight.
All the pilots distinguished themselves few months later in the Battle of Britain, Karubin and Zumbach becoming aces. There is no reason to doubt their comments.

[robert]

Small note:
Karubin claimed together with Adj.Benausse 1 Do 17 in the area of Ham (probably from 1/KG76) and A/C Balmer shared 1 Do 17 with Lt.Dumonceau and also claimed additionaly 1 Do 17 as damaged.
In total I/KG76 reported two badly damaged Do 17 bombers from 1/KG76, and two damaged (one from stI/KG76 and 3/KG76) after attacks of GCII/1, DAT Etampes and Belgian CR-42 DAT Chartres so none of German planes was attacked by single pilot and thus all claims must be shared.
Sources: A.Gillet "Les Victories...Vol.2"; P.Cornwell "TBoFTAN".

Regards

Robert

[Franek Grabowski]

Everything was described by Zumbach some 1,5 month after the events. Considering his unit was not involved in heavy combats, and that Karubin's victory was the only one of Polish pilots, I doubt if he could confuse anything. The question is what are Gillet's sources.

[robert]

Hi,

of course French documents, which are more reliable than a post-action account (written 1,5 month later!).

Regards

Robert

[Franek Grabowski]

What French documents and when filed. It seems you feel an expert in this field, but have you ever seen any French documents?

[robert]

Franek,

of course I have seen some (like unit`s war diaries) and some really well experts and researchers from France have seen a lot of them before they have written their books or articles. So please stop to talk us that you are so big expert in this subject and that some accounts written 1,5 month after combat could be more reliable than reports filled by several other pilots.
You don`t have to respond me because your next post will not bring any relevant inoformation`s.

Regards

Robert

[Franek Grabowski]

I have received some files from friendly French researchers, and the question stands. Where and when documents used by Gillet were filed. You fail to reply this simple, but basic question.

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

Everything was described by Zumbach some 1,5 month after the events. (...) I doubt if he could confuse anything.

Franek Grabowski



Re: Polish pilots in the Congo
(...)

Generally, Zumbach's book cannot be considered a reliable reference (...).

Grozibou : Interesting!

[Franek Grabowski]

Not at all. Those are two (three actually) completely different things. One is book written in 1970s, which is generally a good read, but another is the report filed in July 1940 for Polish authorities, and an entry in so called Ferić's diary, made about the time.
Still, I believe situation at Etampes or Villa may be related to strong communistic sentiments in France.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by robert

Franek,

of course I have seen some (like unit`s war diaries) and some really well experts and researchers from France have seen a lot of them before they have written their books or articles. So please stop to talk us that you are so big expert in this subject and that some accounts written 1,5 month after combat could be more reliable than reports filled by several other pilots.
You don`t have to respond me because your next post will not bring any relevant inoformation`s.

Regards

Robert

It was this kind of bad-tempered response that got the last thread closed. Calm down, please.