May 14th 1940 and few little things

[Bernard]

Arnaud,

On the 14th of May 1940, No.142 Squadron was operating from Berry-au-Bac, sharing this airfield with No.1 Fighter Squadron. On this same date No.67 Wing H.Q was at Guignicourt.
Many told about No.142 Squadron C.O's report, and a citation. 7 crews returned to the squadron.
Peter, all 4 Battles were not necessarily lost to 109's!
Peter has explained why he tends to share your opinion regarding these losses.
Many hasn't published anything yet. Anyway, I know the man, his motivation and I trust him.
I have my own opinion.
But as you have written and published, and are selling your book.
Please you tell us wich is the source that allows you to declare that these Battles were shot down by French Fighters !!

Many thanks.

Regards.

Bernard.

[Many Souffan]

Bonjour.

Thank you Peter for your answer. Disappointed to wait for so long your post.

I would like to give the anwser in his original language for the 4 Hs 126 concerned.

unfornutaly, I don't speak or write, or understand German, It is a great handicap for me when I go to the Ba-Ma, but it is not so important for me, as I said in a previous post, I go always where my subject is. I like the communication.

If I give these infos in his original language, is to know what think the specialists of the Luftwaffe, that all.

I will give, in a very next future the list of the Luftwaffe units attached to the Heer at the 10th may 1940. And I repeat if there were some losses in these units, you will find them with the Heer.


Chemery 12.54; 1 Hs 126B der 3.(H)/21; Aufklärung fur das XIX.AK mot; durch Jager beschadigt >60% und Notlandung hinter den eigegen Linien: Crew unver­letzt.

Chemery 13.00; eine Hs 126B der 2. (H)/23 Pf der 1.Panzerdivision; durch Jäge schwer beschädigt und nach deutschen Angaben bei Jehonville 7 km nordwestlich Betrix abgestürzt. Crew Fallschirmabsprung, dabei Beobachter (Bo) Fw.d.Res. Franz Pörr verwundet.

Vendresse; eine Hs 126B der 3.(H)/21 des XIX.AK mot.; durch Jäger beschädigt und mit >60% Bruch hinter den eigenen Linien notgelandet, Crew unversehrt.

Villers Ie Tilleul; eine Hs 126N der 1. (H)/11 PZ, die für die 7.Panzerdivisio nördlich Le Chesne aufklärte. Durch Jägerangriff beschädigt, machte die unverletzte Besatzung bei der Notlandung Bruch >60%;

thank you Arnaud for your kind post but why to finish with these words:
Anyway the truth will be published soon in French and in English in memory of those airmen killed in action on that 14th May 1940 by French fighters of GC III/7…

The memory of these Germans is better than the French Fighters of III/7, or the British crews of Battle of 142 Sqn. ? ? ? Tell me ? ? ?

Ps: Don't forget to share your sources you didn't write in your 3 books.

Sincerely yours

[Many Souffan]

Ooops!!!

I forget to say my document is a letter in German of this searcher, and I give a part of this letter

Thank you

[arnaud]

Bonjour,

I see now clearly what happened... I would like to thank all of them for this super chat... High show...

I wonder if someone as M. Ian Torrance could add something else to add to this mission of No 142 Squadron... I will soon receive several photographs from I.W.M. but airmen are unidentified like the one coded C. 403.

Does anybody know one of the families of those pilots of No 142 Squadron ? Does anybody have photographs about this squadron or about airmen who took part on that mission. I am also looking for pilot's log books. I contact some museums, but without success...

I will be thankfull to all people who would like to help me... and will thank them officially in my little book dedicted to this unique mission of May 14th 1940 to be published soon. I hope this year but the translation in english take time.

Yours sincerely

Arnaud Gillet

[roumsetom]

Hello,
I am following this thread for some days now and I have this link which could maybe help. http://www.epibreren.com/ww2/raf/142...n.html#history
In this site are listed the fatalities.
Regards
Franck

[Many Souffan]

Hello!

Firstly Thank you Iain, Paul, Peter and Franck

Franck, just a little question, I liked your link, but why you give WT as code for the 142 Sqn. It is not QT?


In your post 61Arnaud, you have written in French this:
- un Henschel 126 de la 2.(H)/23, Feldwebel Pörr (lire Dörr), posé à Chémery à 13.00. »

I translate which is in bold: Feldwebel Pörr (read Dörr). How do you know is Dörr? Incredible! It is really Pörr! Maybe you made a mistake with the famous Fighter pilot of JG 5 Franz Dörr (RK, 132 Victories) !?!? Maybe for some gentlemen this remark can be insignificant, but not for me, because it seems to say by this affirmation, that Mr Gillet knows better than me, the fact…

I would like to translate only one line of the first book of Mr Gillet about the French victories during the Battle of France. There is at the end of this 1st opus, a recapitulation in form of table in 2 columns between French claims and German losses

Down page 132, it is written, always for the 14th may 1940
1st column: 1 II/1 10.30 am Cne Coiral, Lt maurin, Sgt Largeau 1 Hs126, in flames at Vrignes-aux-Bois, confirmed by Z.O.A.N
2nd Column: no Hs126 damaged or shot down reporting in this sector. Approx 3.15 pm, a Fairey Battle, Sqn 12 (L4950) shot down at Vrignes-aux-Bois.

When you read the 2 columns, as reader, it is possible to make a little confusion and to say here too another battle shot down for Hs 126 by 3 French Pilots of GC II/1 in their Bloch 152. Because Arnaud Gillet, affirms no Hs 126 damaged or shot down in this sector.

What said the German document?
14.5. Vrigne au boise; 1 Hs 126B der 1. (H)/14 Pz, die für die 2.Panzerdivision auf­klärte; bei Vrigne au bois durch frz. Jäger schwer beschädigt, die Crew sprang über eigenen Gebiet unverletzt mit den Fallschirmen ab.
Do you think that some French pilots are Liars?
Why so much affirmation in your text?
You must know Arnaud Gillet, it is always difficult to match documents and you must have patience, reflexion, and if it is not sure, problematic, you can add some words as maybe, probably, it is possible, sorry my English is poor to translate what I think in French.

Since the beginning of this thread, I ask you and not only me, to give or as you like to share with us your sources, that I repeat you didn't put in your books.
But it is easy for you to forget to give sources. Maybe you don't have sources? , Maybe it is only your imagination ? or you are thoroughly convinced that it happened like that? it is maybe only feeling? Maybe you thought that you had in hand a scoop? who Know?

Sorry, but I try my best to understand, and I repeat, all that, is without angryness and always with respect for your person. For me, the most important is the Memory of all brave young men; French, German & British, These unknown heroes deserve to be rewarded for what they done. And for many of them they gave their life... When you understand the past, you can see the future clearly...

Thank you.

[roumsetom]

Hello Many
It isn't my website and I'm not the author of the lines which are published there. I just wanted to show to the knowledge of all what I had "found" on Web .
Regards
Franck

[Many Souffan]

Ooops!

I am sorry Franck.

And thank you for your Help.

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

Thank you, we now know the serial numbers of the four Faiey battle's and the names of their crews and what became of them.

But

Those four German aircraft lost, who were their crews and what became of them please ?

Also may I ask who the French pilots were and who made claims for shoot downs that day in the time losses were ?

These details may already have been placed in this thread but I missed them if they were.

Thanks
Alex

[Many Souffan]

Hello Alex

Few infos

At 12.25, 7 pilots of III/7 take off from Vitry-le-François to the North to protect the slow Amiot 143 of GB I & II/34 and II/38 which will go to bomb the bridge of the Meuse (Maas) in the sector of Flize-Sedan, where the Spearhead of XIX Army Corps (mot) of Guderian a long time ago have crossed the Meuse (Maas) with their Panzers and have let Sedan behind them.

At 12h30, the 1 Pz. Div of Kirchner (a part of XIX Army Corps (mot)) has already reached Malmy, and almost finished to take Chemery. After a technical little stop it will reach easily Vendresse, 35 minutes after

At 12h45/50 our 7 French pilots arrived over the sector (level 1500/1800 m), over them, there are some dog fights between D520, Bloch 152 and in other part Bf 109 and Me 110. Under them The Hs 126 attached to the panzer divisionen are spying giving infos also for the units of Stukas which wait for the positions of French army for diving.

The French pilots of III/7 are:
1 section with Adj/C Bertrand-Cne Bouvarre-Slt Billoin,
Pair 1 with Cne Lacombe-Sgt Berthet
Pair 2 with Adj Littolff-Slt Mourier
Adj/C Bertrand who is leading the section, has also the mission to relate by « radiophonie » what happen. As Cdt Crémont the “Boss” of III/7 has written in his diary, he can hear perfectly in his Post of Control and can follow the progress of the mission…

12h54, Adj/C Bertrand saw the first Hs 126, he attacks with Slt Billoin by one side, Adj Littolff, Slt Mourier attack it in other side, Cne Bouvarre protect the attack. The Hs126 force landed at the east of the route nationale 77 at the north of Chemery where the Motorized Flak is already in action (Flak 83 light).
Claim for: Adj/C Bertrand, Slt Billoin, Adj Littolff, Slt Mourier

13h00 The 7pilots of III/7 attack it in noria. Sgt Berthet who attack the last, see a part of the fin to detach, the crew bail out.
Claim for: Cne Bouvarre, Cne Lacombe, Slt Mourier, Slt Billoin, Adj/C Bertrand, Adj Littolff, Sgt Berthet.

13h12 claim for Cne Lacombe, Slt Mourier, Adj Littolff, Sgt Berthet.
13h25 claim for Cne Bouvarre, Cne Lacombe, Slt Mourier, Slt Billoin, Adj/C Bertrand, Adj Littolff, Sgt Berthet.

The French Pilots begin their comeback 10/15 minutes after the last victory.
Sorry Alex but I can’t tell all the story I must keep some for my article.

Alex, about the names of the crews of Hs126, I have only who were wounded or dead…

Thank you.