May 14th 1940 and few little things

[arnaud]

M Many Souffan,

Thank you for your answer. So I think you will correct me and publish soon an article about this mission.

Will it be published in the next Avions magazine ?

Yours sincerely

Arnaud Gillet

[Alex Smart]

Thank you all ,

This has been a great discussion but at times has almost been lost.

However, I would just like to say that in the heat of battle and in reporting the actions afterwards is just that it is always from memory.

To support my remarks.

From either "Buffalos over Singapore" or "Hurricanes over Singapore" ( I forget which).
It is written that Pilots reported that they had sighted or had been attacked by Messerschmitts.
This was of course impossible but the reports were made at the time in good faith and from memory just after the event.

So it is equaly possible that those surviving Battle aircrew reported being shot at by Messerschmitts. When they were actualy shot at by French aircraft. Equally they could have reported that they were shot at by friendly aircraft when they had indeed been shot at by the enemy.

All the very best to you all
and thanks
Alex

[Birgir Thorisson]

Messerschmitts were not just seen over Malaya, but even reported during the battle of the Coral Sea, by a most experienced and competent senior american pilot Lt.Cmdr. Paul H. Ramsay, (Co. VF-2) The Messerschmitt was in US identification manuals, thus influencing expectations of what you would see.

However, I must agree with Many, for one pilot to believe that a Battle is actually a Hs-126 is weird, but may happen, but for seven men to share the delusion is perverse. Confusing Hs-126 with Lysanders or Mureaux is understandable, but the Battle?

A short comment aimed mainly at Brian Cull, not related to the preceding discussion about events in France on May 14th 1940.
Prompted by the mentioning of Messerschmitts in Malaya.
Could it all be "friendly fire" incidents?
In researching the actions there, did you look into the possibility of the Messerschmitts actually being Hurricanes, (and for that matter, mistaking Ki-27 for "Zeroes" actually being Buffaloes?)

Birgir Thorisson.

[Brian]

Hi Birgir

Yes, you are probably correct. I am sure the Buffalo pilots who thought they saw Bf109s had in fact encountered Hurricanes, although one did claim a Messerschmitt shot down (no Hurricane lost). Similarly, Buffalo and Hurricane pilots mistakenly identified Buffaloes as 'Zeros' (Ki-43s, in fact). Highly confusing.

Cheers
Brian

[BlenheimBuff]

To All Concerned,

Can we please draw a line under this whole argument and just move on? I speak as a junior member of the forum, but have to say that I am surprised that so much effort and focus is being placed on this particular thread. As far as I can see it is simply a case of differing opinions, and a debate which is not supported on either side with unequivocal evidence. The thread is becoming increasingly petty and confrontational, and as such threatens to devalue the whole forum. If personal contributions are being made simply to advance personal agendas rather than to genuinely advance our understanding of these events then they have little value in my book.

I understand the strength of emotions that this subject generates, but unless someone can provide real physical or documentary evidence to support their personal opinions then let's just agree to differ and move on without further acrimony. If the individuals concerned feel unable to do this then maybe the forum moderator(s) should intervene.

Regards,

Ian

[Bernard]

From one concerned,

I am not going to accept under the name of whatever is, that someone by wichever kind of logic is, would state that four RAF Fairey Battles would have been shot down by French fighter pilots without being able to provide any kind of serious argumentation.
The fact is that Mr Gillet in his book states this fact.
Without providing any worther source than his believing.

His book is published.
His book is sold.
Many people believe what is published!
Do you know about revisionism?

Sincerely yours.

Bernard.

There is no shame in stating that in this case I DON'T KNOW!.

[arnaud]

Before the publication in french and in english of our developpement of the friendly fires of GC III/7 on May 14 1940 (around 100 pages), we would like to give you some informations about those 4 Henschel 126 as said "shot down on May 14 1940" :

http://aviation1940.site.voila.fr/page3.html

Arnaud Gillet