Soviet (and other) Aerocraft Paints

[Martti Kujansuu]

Here we have preserved aerocraft pieces from the Finnish AntiAircraft Museum (http://www.ilmatorjuntamuseo.fi/eng/). Were the aeroplanes in the 1930s and 40s painted with oil based paints or what was the binder?

1. MiG-3



2. 3xSB-2





Martti

[Pilot]

What is shown is camouflage colors, green and silver.

[Martti Kujansuu]

Originally Posted by Pilot

What is shown is camouflage colors, green and silver.

These were oil paints or maybe enamel ones?

[Arsenal VG-33]

Originally Posted by Martti Kujansuu

These were oil paints or maybe enamel ones?

Hello Martti, nice photographs. Thanks.

In M Maslov's book about Tchaïkas it was depending on the support you have to paint: AE-9 for metal, AE-8 for fabric covering were enamel for instance. AII for general purpose was an oil paint, AFAIK.

But why don't you ask your question on a russian forum like Sukhoi.ru, Airforce.ru, Airpages.ru or many others...

Regards

V33

PS: Can you tell me if something was published (but not in suomi langage) about Finish Hurricanes, please?

[Bardie]

Kari Stenman
has published a book in English

Hurricane & Gladiator
SIV 25
(Suomen Ilmavoimat)

Check his homepage

http://www.kolumbus.fi/kari.stenman

[Martti Kujansuu]

Originally Posted by Arsenal VG-33

Hello Martti, nice photographs. Thanks.

In M Maslov's book about Tchaïkas it was depending on the support you have to paint: AE-9 for metal, AE-8 for fabric covering were enamel for instance. AII for general purpose was an oil paint, AFAIK.

But why don't you ask your question on a russian forum like Sukhoi.ru, Airforce.ru, Airpages.ru or many others...

Thanks for the answer! I didn't post the question to the Russian forums because I can't write or read Russian and didn't want to post the question in English on a Russian forum!

Martti

[kurlannaiskos]

here's a thought...
get a sample and take it to a lab and have it tested.
this will tell you it's chemical composition

according to Orlov and Vakhlamov the AII system is listed as 'nitoehmal' (нитроэмаль)
M-Hobby (magazine) 1/99 page 26

[Kari Lumppio]

Originally Posted by Martti Kujansuu

Were the aeroplanes in the 1930s and 40s painted with oil based paints or what was the binder? Martti

Hello!

Cellulose nitrate would have been the most used binder. I.e. nitrocellulose laquers. Even in Soviet Union. These were painted on all types of surfaces and materials. AII- (that is Roman numeral 2) and AMT- laquers.

Oil paint were also used on wooden and steel surfaces. Also on aluminium. Oil paints would not normally be painted on fabric surfaces. A- and AE- paints.

Some Soviet aviation primers were glyptal resins. Likely only as the major part of the mixture, though. IIRC ALG-5 (green) was one of them, but needs verification.

In 1943 or so perchlorovinyl primer for wooden surfaces was introduced. This paint DD-118 seems to have been used on interior surfaces only. Soviet aviation paints included also perchlorovinyl paints for exteriors but IIRC were not produced in quantity during wartime. Post-war they became a norm, apparently.


Some further reading:
http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/report.php?NID=21
"Airplane dopes and doping" by Smith, W H. A NACA report (nr. 38) from year 1919. Good and short - only five pages - explanation about cellulose acetate and cellulose nitrate dopes.

Search net with keywords like: stand oil, linseed oil, glyptal resin, alkyd etc. Good explanations are hard to find, though.


Pigmentation is whole another world to add.


Hope this helps some,
Kari

[Arsenal VG-33]

Originally Posted by Martti Kujansuu

Thanks for the answer! I didn't post the question to the Russian forums because I can't write or read Russian and didn't want to post the question in English on a Russian forum!

Hello Martti

I don't think they will eat you, even if you ask a question in English on a Russain forum. Some of them have (or had) special section for english speakers. Also Kari Luppio is right, and I am wrong about AII and AE paints. Sorry...
Anyway, since our "Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace" at le Bourget, decided to restore its I-153, I will tell you more when we'd recieve some documentation from Moscow. So keep your e-mail open.


Thanks to Bardie


VG-33

[Pilot]

Until the late '30 all paints were enamel[ term oil is used for artist colors and paints ] Later was introduced nitro paints but it look like that enamel was remained as protective or basic surface preparation color. I have a lot of text about but all in Russian. Many of this paints were in industrial manufacvture until '80, only Korichnevya was not in the list [that was brown color].

In Soviet sources could be found many interesting thing and if any of you find indo about the low level camouflage introduced for fighters in mid '42 I would like to know.

Cheers