Circus 40 8 Jul 41

[Chris Goss]

This Circus was flown late afternoon and the RAF suffered 9 Spitfire casualties. The locations of 2 (Giermer/303 Sqn Manston & Stoop/610 Sqn Hawkinge) are known and the approximate location of another (Strembosz/303 Sqn, Merville area) but can anyone else furnish me more precise locations? Machacek/145 Sqn, Arentowicz/303 Sqn & Feeley/611 Sqn are presumed to have come down at sea but where did the 3 POWs (Pine/145 Sqn, Biel/308 Sqn & Horner/610 Sqn) come down?

[Nokose]

Chris,
Norman Frank's revised RAF Fighter Command Losses has Arentowicz (303) over Dunkirk and Biel (308) lost over Lille.
Nothing on exact locations for the rest.

[timothy]

Must have been a busy day?
So glad that our Sweep was from 1430!! (2nd entry)

[Chris Goss]

Thanks Timothy. This would the the right time. Flt Lt Smart of 65 Sqn (as opposed to 56 Sqn) did claim a 109 off Mardyk at 1530 hrs but nothing matches. Likewise Tuck west of Lille. Unfortuntately, we lost 7 Spitfires plus 2 damaged/wounded claiming 11 destroyed, 2 probable and 2 damaged but German losses were only 2 confirmed (whilst they claimed 13)

[Andy Saunders]

A familiar story!

[Franek Grabowski]

Andy, do you want to prove, that the Luftwaffe was the factor that disallowed RAF FC to annihilate itself?

[Andy Saunders]

I am a little unclear as to what you mean exactly. Perhaps you would clarify?

As regards to my posting it was merely an observation that the loss/claim ratio was, in 1941 at least, frequently "skewed" in this manner. Luftwaffe claims were seemingly often relatively close to the reality of RAF FC losses whilst, unfortunately, RAF FC claims (destroyed, damaged or probables) were often a little on the optimistic side.

[Franek Grabowski]

I mean, that perhaps FC claims were much closer to the reality than widely thought, whilst Luftwaffe claims were on the optimistic side. I understand, that you proved that in your latest book beyond any doubt.

[Andy Saunders]

The opposite to that, I think, Franek!

[Franek Grabowski]

Andy, I believe that FC downed many more aircraft, bulk of them credited to Luftwaffe. You see, on 9 July, FC claimed 18, and actually downed 5, Luftwaffe claimed 13, and actually downed 7.