Photo online: Bf 109 E-7 w.3, 8./JG 5, May 1942

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Originally Posted by markjsheppard

What about this one?
27.05.42 III/JG5 Bf109E-7 4141 Titowka 40% Enemy Fire None personal injury.

Hello,

According to GQM losses and Prien's JFV, the above mentioned Bf109E was already lost in 1940.
Bf 109E-4 WNr.4141 27.09.40 6./JG3 N.N., Luftkampf - Absturz, in die See (Kanal) - 100%

The correct JG5 loss on the 27.05.1942 should be the following
Bf 109E WNr.4111 27.05.42 8./JG5 N.N., Luftkampf mit Jäger - Notlandung, W Titowka - 40% sw.2+ (E-7)

best regards,
Tomi

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Tomislav

I believe you are wrong.

As far as I can see (will double check this evening) WNr 4141 must have been recovered after the incident in JG 3. I have this aircraft noted for a longer period of time as being refurbished to E-7 status at Erla.

It was damaged at Langeoog while with I./JG 54 in May 1941, was returned to be repaired again, and went to JG 5 where we have the loss listed of 27.05.1942.

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=127126

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=122967

I would have been comfortable with the aircraft being lost and the WNr erronously recorded if it was only the loss in JG 5 we had, but in this case we not only have multiple GenQu 6 Abt references to this airframe after the alleged loss, but also other documentary sources from a repair facility which has recorded this WNr.

Will double check this evening.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hi Andreas,

Yes, I think you are right. The WNr. for the loss on the 27.09.40 might be wrong.
Could you please also check what you have for WNr.4111?

I have ther following
Bf 109E WNr.4111 19.04.41 4./JG54 N.N., Überschlag bei Landung, Fl.Pl. Belgrad-Semlin - 50%
Bf 109E WNr.4111 10.08.41 5./JG77 N.N., Luftkampf mit Jäger, bei Zebrikowo - 35%
Bf 109E WNr.4111 14.07.42 Stab/SchG1 N.N., beim Start ausgebrochen, Fl.Pl. Kartayschewka - 35%

regards,
Tomi

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Tomislav

I have the following for these three losses:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=112068

As you can see I have WNr 4114 for this one, and I have checked the GenQu records to be sure I haven't made an error, and it says 4114.

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=135878

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=135879

The other two seem to be more or less similar to what you have

Regards,
Andreas B

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys.

Finally got time to access my archives.

Some facts:

The 7./JG 5 (ex 1.(Eins)/Erg. J.G.3) was in Banak on 21.4.1942 as reported in the KTB of Luftflotte 5 Gefechtsstab on this date. The order was for the unit on this date to stay ready for redeployment and immediate action at Banak. It is of interest to note that they state that 7./J.G.5 'mit Spitzenpersonal' is at Banak, which indicate that the units commanding officers and Gruppenstab is also located at Banak at this time.

The next day, 22.4., the order for the unit to continue their redeployment to the north is mentioned, really an annullment of the order of the previous date.

Late May 1942 the same war diary mentions 9./JG 5, which at the time is stationed in Bodø, they are to dispatch one Schwarm to Elvenes for protection of shipping in Narvik.

Have had a few minutes to think about this now, and as we all know, the II. Gruppe were dispatched to Pori in a Staffel by Staffel operation late April 1942, in order to re-equip with Bf 109F. So i believe what we see from the tower logs at pori at this time is the individual Staffeln of II. Gruppe transferring their new mounts to the frontline after a brief transition training at Pori.

So - I think my theory with regards to the combined operation of 7. and 8. Staffel still hold water.

The new assessment of the photograph in question more and more point towards the 6./JG 5. The style of the numeral '3' is typical of the numerals used by this unit, as seen on for example the aircraft of Rudolf Müller.

Is it possible to be certain about WHAT airfield we are dealing with here?? the barracks and their placement should be a rather distinctive feature. I have overviews over all airfields in Norway with drawings and aerial photographs, but not from the finnsih ones.

I guess the Soviets must have flown recon over these, any material available from that side??

Regards,
Andreas B

[Martti Kujansuu]

Originally Posted by Andreas Brekken

Is it possible to be certain about WHAT airfield we are dealing with here??

The owner of the photo is a Finnish soldier based on Petsamo area but I'm not certain if he also took the photograph.

Martti