Shot down Fw 189 on 16.5.1940

[Marius]

So the documented time is 8.30 p.m. according to English documents, right ?
I cannot believe the 79 Sqd spoted 3 Fw 189 and 1 Do 215 ? Maybe 1 Fw 189 and 3 Me 110 ?

Could it be that 79 Sqd shot down this 1 Fw 189 - Lt. Seehase`s aircraft. And the Staka`s aircraft was shot down earlier the day ?

I would like to know what German documents are telling us about these losses?

Marius

[Chris Goss]

Oops-being military, 8:30 should be 0830 but checking Peter's book it was 2030 hrs which matches with 79 Sqn's 3 claims by Parker, Clift & Cartwright as being 'PM'. I contacted Clift who remembers the combat clearly. Admitedly, 2 recce ac flying together is unusual so if anyone can disprove, so be it

[Marius]

Indeed it is more complicated than I thought at the beginning. In this case any researching is not possible without knowing more German details. And you must add French fighters too, like the GC III/1 (Marche,Chciuk,Gnys). They shot down a "Do 17" in Gembloux area at 14.10 hours.

[Peter Cornwell]

Marius,

You can make it complicated if that is your wish. For my part, I note claims for Fw189s filed by No.79 Squadron in the right area - these being, as far as I am aware, the only claims for such a type filed by any Allied pilot on the day in question but please correct me on this if I am wrong. As the Fw189 was an unusual type to meet on operations at the time, I see no reason to question the validity of these claims.

[Marius]

Peter,
I am sure the type could has been misifdentified by French pilots as a "Do 17".
Otherwise, the 79 Sqd achieved all 3 victories in the evening. The simplest way to compare and check both Fw 189 losses is to find out when exactly they flew their missions.
Any idea who could know these details ?

[Peter T]

Hi Marius,

German sources do not provide any detail.

I have an account by P/O TC Parker, and it’s clear that he shot down the Focke-Wulf Fw189A-0 of FF Uffz Heinz Schmitz: “ Led Green section with P/O Dorien-Smith and Sgt McQueen. Saw Focke Wolfe (sic) at 3000 ft so attacked with good lookout for Me’s, enemy/a dived down very low but closed up and fired until he hit the ground and exploded. We were then subjected to extremely heavy ground fire of all kinds which damaged all the a/c. …”

The second Focke-Wulf Fw189A-0 was claimed by P/O Clift, and Sgt Cartwright. Although I do not have a combat report, I see no reason to question the validity of these claims

Peter

[Seaplanes]

Considering that not a single FW 189A-1 series had left the production lines by 30 June 1940, one must anticipate that any aircraft must have been a V-muster or one of a few A-0 pre-production series. On 30.6.40 most of these were serving as test aircraft either at Focke-Wulf or at Rechlin.

[Marius]

Thanks Peter.
But what about the third shot down Fw 189 ???
And why don`t you think that all three pilots claimed the same aircraft (Seehase) ? Or maybe one of the British pilots shot at the Hs 126 of 4.(H)/13 ?