Jewish airmen in WWII

[Andy Saunders]

Franek, in the interest of clarity I would like to make it plain that I was not in any way suggesting that Israel and its Jewish population had no right to exist as a nation! I am sorry if you or anyone else thought I meant that.

[Ruy Horta]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

The problem is that there is both Jewish religion and Jewish nationality.

Little OT, but I'd like to differ.

IMO there is no Jewish nation only the Jewish religion. There isn't even a Jewish race. For millions of Jews the only common bond is faith*. In that sense it is not different to Catholicism.

There is however the modern State of Israel. The story behind it might however disqualify it as a "nation state". It is a recent artificial entity, which in part is the root cause behind many of its problems.

Only a hundred years ago there was a Palestinian "nation", a cultural entity living in a geographic area called Palestine. It never became a modern nation state, because it was absorbed in the creation of Israel, and it was in our Western eyes transformed to little more than a "minorities" issue.

From a purely academic point of view I don't know why one should not be allowed to discuss the validity of the modern state of Israel or right of it to exist within its current borders. But from a practical point of view I understand all the difficulties that come with it, ranging from legal to social.

Back to the subject, as there was no State of Israel in 1940, there was(were) no Israeli(s) in the Battle of Britain, but if you must it is a Palestinian of Jewish faith.

Now for a small disclaimer. Having written the above is not the same as being anti-semitic nor denying the right of Jews to live in peace, which is a natural right for all humans. But I admit that it does mean that I put question marks beside the current State of Israel, its borders and its policies towards the Palestinians.

We should never forget the Holocaust, but we should not accept blank cheques based on that remembrance (and perhaps even a sense of guilt).

*well, you might add that for millions of Jews the common bond is being American (and) or Israeli

[Franek Grabowski]

Andy
The problem is that such division in case of Jews is very hard, especially as there was no country of origin. There were several spurious claims made over the nationality of some pilots, hence the question.
Looking forward for your reply on the BoB forum.

[Andy Saunders]

Franek. Understood!

A pity, though, that published sources continue to state, rather ludicrously, that there was "One Israeli" in the BofB nominal roll. Years ago I spoke to Tom Gleave about this and his remarks to me were that the inclusion of this in the rolling credits at the end of the film "Battle of Britain" was entirely political with less then subtle pressure applied by HM Government on the film makers via the MOD and RAF.

[Franek Grabowski]

Well, I would say that in the light of evidence it is an utter lie, and a nonsense in spite of obvious fact there was no Israeli state at 1940. The fact of pressure is especially interesting, considering one of producers, Fisz, was an airman of Jewish faith.

[Andy Saunders]

In which case perhaps it didn't need too much pressure, anyway!

[Franek Grabowski]

Well, I do not know what was the faith of Salzman, but the origin is clear as well. Why there is a mention of pressure then? I know that Fisz pressed for inclusion of the Polish Squadron though. So sad he did not manage to film his last movie before his death.

[David Ransome]

Hi,

As far as I am aware both Fisz and Salzman had not wanted the one 'Israeli' shown in the end titles and I have a recollection that they had commented to the effect that a number of aircrew involved were Jewish by religion. I'm certain that the pressure came from the political arena and UA, for whatever reason.

Regards,

David

[Franek Grabowski]

Presumably in view of another conflict on the Middle East.

[Steve_Fossey]

As a first approximation I would expect that the number of Jewish aircrew in the USAAF would be the same as the percentage of the US population that was Jewish. I'm sure the information is out there somewhere, but I couldn't find it. According to this website: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html, in 2006 1.8% of the US population was Jewish. Again as a rough guess I'd say 1.8%, give or take, of USAAF aircrew would have been Jewish.

I have a list of the men in two rooms of Lager B of Stalag Luft IV. They probably represent a reasonably random sample of bomber aircrew enlisted men in the spring of 1944. Of the 51 names I would say that one is Jewish (though some others could be too) or about 2%. I have not calculated what the confidence limits on that measure are, but it is consistent with the first estimate.