Luftwaffe aerial recon prior to D-Day

[edwest]

Thank you, Bruce, for your time and effort. This information is very helpful. I have not spent decades, as some here, tracking down everything relevant but I'm continuing to check new sources. One is a book titled German Penetration of SOE, which I do not have yet. I am also looking into what the Germans may have known about the departure of large numbers of troop ships from the American east coast, as well as vessels carrying ammunition and vehicles.



Regards,
Ed

[JMSmith]

hi ed,

just a quick question, have you stopped posting ebay links for a reason, or are you just to busy.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by edwest

I have not spent decades, as some here, tracking down everything relevant but I'm continuing to check new sources.
Regards,
Ed

Periodically in HW5 series Ultra files you will find a section headed "Attention Signals Security Officers" which sets out what the Germans are deducing from Allied signals traffic about the strength, location and intentions of Allied units. Essentially the Allies are watching the Germans watching the Allies ...

[odybvig]

It surprise me that nobody in this thread is talking about checking german documents about what they knew about the preparation for D-Day


Best from Norway
Olve Dybvig

[Larry deZeng]

Originally Posted by odybvig

It surprise me that nobody in this thread is talking about checking german documents about what they knew about the preparation for D-Day
Best from Norway
Olve Dybvig

Hmmm. The ULTRA intercepts that Nick Beale has commented on are German documents. The books cited in this thread, Kahn et al, are based on thorough research of the surviving German documents. Do you know of some surviving German documents that should be examined that the world has not seen yet? This is one of the highest interest questions from all of World War II and I know of no other that has received more scrutiny from historians and scholars. I think today, 65 years ex post facto, it can be safely said that there are no yet-to-be-revealed "smoking guns" out there on what the Germans knew or didn't know about the long-expected invasion. The Germans were deceived, bamboozled and hornswoggled by the Allied "Bodyguard of Lies" into believing the invasion would occur in the Pas de Calais area defended by AOK 15. It didn't matter what AOK 7 in Normandy or OB West thought, it only mattered what OKW and the Führer thought. And they only thought one thing: Pas de Calais probably in June.

[Bruce Dennis]

Larry: exactly.
Regards,
Bruce

[edwest]

Hi John,

I have not been posting eBay links because I have been very busy and was ill for a brief period. Hopefully, I will get back to it soon. Thanks for asking.



Ed

[odybvig]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

Hmmm. The ULTRA intercepts that Nick Beale has commented on are German documents. The books cited in this thread, Kahn et al, are based on thorough research of the surviving German documents. Do you know of some surviving German documents that should be examined that the world has not seen yet? This is one of the highest interest questions from all of World War II and I know of no other that has received more scrutiny from historians and scholars. I think today, 65 years ex post facto, it can be safely said that there are no yet-to-be-revealed "smoking guns" out there on what the Germans knew or didn't know about the long-expected invasion. The Germans were deceived, bamboozled and hornswoggled by the Allied "Bodyguard of Lies" into believing the invasion would occur in the Pas de Calais area defended by AOK 15. It didn't matter what AOK 7 in Normandy or OB West thought, it only mattered what OKW and the Führer thought. And they only thought one thing: Pas de Calais probably in June.

Well, since this thread is about german aerial recon prior to D-day, I suppose the question here is what the germans knew about which allied unit who was based where in england in spring 1944. And how they collected that info. Not how the allied tricked the germans about the landing site. Everybody knows that. And since your books tell little about it, it seems that this topic is not so thorough research as you tell. Probably because historians normally don't goes in detail about such stuff.

And Ultra is not a german document

Best again from Norway
Olve

[Larry deZeng]

Well, since this thread is about german aerial recon prior to D-day, I suppose the question here is what the germans knew about which allied unit who was based where in england in spring 1944. And how they collected that info. Not how the allied tricked the germans about the landing site. Everybody knows that. And since your books tell little about it, it seems that this topic is not so thorough research as you tell. Probably because historians normally don't goes in detail about such stuff.
And Ultra is not a german document
Best again from Norway
Olve

Then what do you think it is? It's the untranslated and translated verbatim transcript of an encrypted German message intercepted and decrypted by British signals intelligence.

As for German knowledge of Allied units in the U.K. in spring 1944, there are loads of documents in the Ic Fremde Heere West/OKH collection (NARA T-78) and Ic Fremde Luftwaffe West/Ob.d.L. collection (NARA T-321). They are quite detailed - but not very accurate - down to infantry/armored division and air group level, but what's the point? There is a big difference between having knowledge of an enemy's order of battle and acting on it. This thread is about D-Day and what the Germans knew about troop buildups and shipping concentrations and what that might say about where the invasion might be expected. All the OB intelligence gave them was partially accurate information on units, over all size, and some details on locations. But they still did not know where or exactly when.

[odybvig]

What's the point ?

Ehhhhhhhhhh trying to answer the question that was raised in this thread:

Can anyone point me to a source that describes Luftwaffe flights over England just prior to D-Day?

Or should we don't bother since the germans lost the war ?

And if Ultra is a german document or a british transcript of an encrypted German message, depends probably of whom you ask

Olve :-)