Need StaKap info for I./ZG1 during 1939-40

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by Doug Stankey

I am positive that I have seen photos of the plane crashed with Hammes' temporary grave next to it.

Doug

So have I...

[Doug Stankey]

I found it!

There are photos of the crash site and grave of Karl Hammes on pages 10 and 11 of:
Vasco, John J. Zerstörer Volume One – Luftwaffe Fighter-Bombers and Destoyers 1936-1940 (Classic Publications, 2005), ISBN 1-903223-57-1

Bf 110 C-1 (2N+IH)

I can't find the WNr.


DGS

[Larry Hickey]

Doug,

Thanks for checking into this further; your comments completely deal with my issue. Yes, there are many, many photos around of his force landed Bf110C-1, 2N+IH, that Hammes was piloting the day that he was killed. His field grave is visible on many of these next to the plane. This is likely to be a color profile in our Polish Campaign book, although I also believe that I have his regularly assigned a/c, 2N+AH, with a double white rear fuselage band, documented photographically from that period. Since 2N+IH is so much better known, it may be more appropriate to do his regular a/c instead for a profile. Interestingly, there is a second a/c from that Staffel, 2N+FH, that is documented from ECPA photography, that also carried a similar white double band on the rear fuselage. These are obviously some kind of command bands unique to I./ZG1 from that period, but I'm not sure what they signify; flight leaders and C.O. perhaps? Does anybody have an opinion about this, and/or know of any other white (or any other color) rear fuselage bands on I./ZG1 Bf110Cs from the Polish Campaign period? Would 2 Staffel have used red bands, and 3 Staffel yellow ones, and maybe the Stab green ones? There are also examples of white command bands on Stukas and other aircraft for the 1939 period.

Regards,

[Evgeny Velichko]

I have 9 different photos of this a/c, but only on one W.Nr. is visible.

Visible, but totally unreadable, because it is in black, on dark green camou and below horizontal stabiliser, in the shadow

For the fuselage bands:

As for I./ZG1, I saw only 1 a/c with dowble white band, 2N+?H, with Swastike oainted in early style (indicate this to Polish campaign).

But IMHO those tail bands were not something "standart".

J.Gr.102 (further I./ZG2) used 3 fuselage bands on Bf109D as follows :
black, white, black, for 1 StaKa,
red (outlined in white) for 2 StaKa,
two white for 3 StaKa.
But it seems that they didnt practice it during French campaign on theyr Bf110C.

As for other known Gruppen, used this style of marking, I know only I./ZG26 during Battle of Britain:

Bf110D, U8+DK, with 1 thin white band next to horis. stabiliser and white nose.
Bf110C, U8+HL, with 1 thin white band next to horis. stabiliser and white nose (crashlanded).
Bf110C, U8+GL, with 1 thin white band next to horis. stabiliser and white nose.

So, it does not show any differense between band style between Staffeln, also, it could not mean the aircraft belong to CO.

Otherwise, Bf110C U8+HH of Oblt. G.Shpecht did not have this band (or it is not visible, or it is a photo from French campaign, when Gruppe didnt used this marking yet).

[Larry Hickey]

Evgeny,

Thanks for your comments. As I said in my previous posts I have photos of at least 2 1./ZG1 a/c with the white bands during the general period of the Polish Campaign: 2N+AH and 2N+FH. There are other photos of a/c of this unit from that period that don't appear to carry this, hence my opinion that these are command bands of some sort.

Regarding the I./ZG26 white band on the rear fuselage of their Bf110s, I have many photos showing examples of this on a/c of the Stab and all three staffels and with many codes, indicating that it was carried at least from early in the Battle of Britain until the ZG units withdrew from the Battle by 10.40, including U8+BB, U8+GH, U8+BK, U8+HK, U8+BL, U8+CL, U8+GL, U8+HL and U8+KL. These are only the ones in the EOE DB, but there are obviously others in the literature, such as your mentioned U8+DK. Numerous dated forced-landed a/c confirm that this was not carried during the Western Campaign of May-June, 1940 (U8+BH, U8+CH, U8+DH, U8+CK, U8+DL, ). Other photos indicate that this was not used after the Battle of Britain period. There are known, datable examples of Bf110s of I./ZG1 that did not carry this during the Battle of Britain, notably U8+AL down on a French beach on 30 August 1940, U8+FL which was in the background of a photo of U8+CL that does carry the band, and U8+AK that was photographed with two other a/c of 2 Staffel that carried the bands. My theory is that this was painted on ALL I./ZG1 aircraft by the beginning of the Battle of Britain, but replacement a/c did not necessarily receive this, and the marking was not carried over after the Gruppe withdrew from the Channel front in late 1940.

Comments? Does anyone know of further examples?

Regards

[John Vasco]

Were not the 1939 white fuselage bands used for some kind of identification in pre-war exercises? 109s can be seen with them also.