19 and 65 Squadron´s losses on 20th June 1944

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Amrit, Alex, Hank and Nokose;
The combats around 16:00hs and 17:00hs are not totally clear to me.
I started my researches about the 20th June 1944 combats with the first claims known to me around 07:10hs.
07:00hs Combats
Apparently Thunderbolts from 78th FG clashed with Bf 109s of I/JG 3 ( and maybe I/JG 5 ) between Roye and Noyon ( Montdidier area to the NNW of Paris ).
LW airmen claimed 4 Thunderbolts and 2 Mustangs. I do have one loss for 78th FG and scattered losses for 352nd FG and 359thFG. MAYBE those machines were from 9th AF - whose losses I can not have access.
09:00hs combats
Between 09:05 and 09:08hs, I/JG 1 Fw 190s claimed 5 Lightnings near ARGENTAN. AGAIN, one can assume they were in combat with 9th AF machines.
16:00hs Combats
III/JG 54 claimed 8 Mustangs for the loss of only one machine of 8 Staffel.
As you pointed out, they probably clashed against 19 Squadron. However, but sides overclaimed, which could be considered "natural" on the circunstances the combat took place...
However, I came over a 65 Squadron claim of a Fw 190 damaged to F/L Basil Gordon Collins ( do not know at which time this combat ocurred ) and a 65 Squadron´s loss: F/Sgt Gordon Ewart Holland ( RAFVR 1473829 ), killed in combat. LATER, researching about F/Sgt Holland, I noticed he is listed as KIA on 29th July 1944! ( I do not know which source is correct then...)
317 Squadron ( Polish ) claimed several Fw 190s around 16:00hs near Arromanches, for the loss of one of their own ( F/Sgt Winski ). There are several Fw 190s of JG 2 lost around Isigny, W of Carentan and two losses near Cherbourg that day...Was 317 Squadron in combat with JG 2?
17:30hs Combats
JG 26 claimed three P-38 Lightnings near Evreux/ Pacy-sur-Eure. Could it have been in combat with 479th FG which lost one Lightning that day? Again, an overclaimed combat?
18:50-19:00hs combats
JG 3 may have been in combat late in this afternoon. Uffz Gunther Engler from 4 Staffel claimed a Mustang near Falaise. However, 4 Staffel lost one of their aces, Uffz Otto Florian near Bernay.

I do have 5 x Bf 109 G-6 losses from JG 2, between Le Mans / over Baron ( near Villers-Bocage ) / Evreux / Neaufles. TO WHOM can we attribute those losses? 9th AF machines?

Finally, I saw that a Bf 109 G-5 from 4(F)/123 was lost on a recon mission probably near Seine Bay. WOULD one of you have the hour of this loss or probable victor?

YOURS
Adriano Baumgartner

[Amrit1]

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

However, I came over a 65 Squadron claim of a Fw 190 damaged to F/L Basil Gordon Collins ( do not know at which time this combat ocurred )

Shores has Collins being one of the 19 Squadron pilots

FB116 F/L B G Collins damaged 1

[CENTURION]

Hello Adriano,

07:00hs Combats
I think I./JG5 and I./JG3 clashed only with P47s of the 78th FG.
The 352nd FG lost a P51 in combat but over Germany.
The 357th FG and the 359th FG each lost a P51 over France but they were shot down by Flak on the evening.
09:00hs combats
I think I./JG1 and II./JG1 were in combat with P38s of the 370th FG.
17 P38s of the 401th FS took off at 7:00 for a recce mission and were attacked @ 8:50 near Nonant Le Pin at 12.000 feet by 14 FW-190s.The Americans claimed 3 FW-190 destroyed for the loss of 2 P38s of 2/Lt. Robert S Rice and 2/Lt. Roger Wainwraight.
16:00hs Combats
I think III./JG54 was in combat only with P51s of 19 Squadron.
17:30hs Combats
I think I./JG26 was in combat with P38s of 370th FG.
33 P38s of 402nd FS and 485th FS took off @ 15:30 for a recce mission. 4 P38s of 485th FS were attacked @ 18:00 near Verneuil, W of Dreux, by 8 FW-190s. The Americans claimed 1 FW-190 destroyed, later reduced to a damaged, for the loss of the P38 of 2/Lt. George R Holloway. The P38 of 1/Lt. Sidney D Radoccia returned to the base but, damaged by AA and by E/A, was scrapped.
The 479th FG lost a P38 in combat but over Germany.
18:50-19:00hs combats
I think 4./JG3 was in combat with P51s of 10th PRG - 15th rcns - who claimed 1 Me-109 destroyed and 1 Me-109 damaged NW of Argentan between 16:50 and 19:45 for no loss.

Best regards

Marco

[SMF144]

Adriano et al,

Here is what I have for relevant claims and losses that day.

Stephen

Claims

Ninth Air Force;
0629/1127 hrs, Mustangs of 363 Group claimed three Me.190s, one Me.410, two Fw.190s destroyed and three Me.410, four Fw.190s and two Me.109s damaged in the area of combat "Dessau".
0700/1015 hrs, Lightnings of 370 Group claimed five Fw.190s destroyed and two damaged in the are of combat "Nogent".
1325/1603 hrs., Thunderbolts of 371 Group claimed four Me.109s destroyed in the area of combat "Dreux".
1530/1835 hrs., Lightnings of 370 Group claimed two Me.109s destroyed in the area of combat "Trappes/Maintonon/Dreux.

Second T.A.F.
0455/0715 hrs., Spitfires of 331 & 332 Squadrons claimed one Me.109 destroyed in the area of combat "15 miles east of Caen".
1459/1815 hrs., Spitfires of 302, 308, & 317 Squadrons claimed two Fw.190s in the area of combat "off the beach head".
1522/1715 hrs., Mustangs of 19 Squadron claimed two Fw.190s destroyed, one possibly destroyed and five damaged in the area of combat "Prouvais".

Losses

Ninth A.F. - 363 Gp, two Mustangs were either damaged or destroyed; 370 Grp, four Lightnings were either damaged or destroyed.

Second T.A.F. - 302 Squadron, one Spitfire destroyed; 129 Squadron, one Mustang damaged; 19 Squadron, one Mustang destroyed and one damaged; 317 Squadron, appear to have one destroyed, three damaged and maybe one more.