Flak Unit ID's

[JayWhit]

Thank You ALL for your answers and help.

It was getting me frustrated as Flak units are virtually ignored in the histories I have. Except for the "88's" as they were famous for brewing up French and Engllish armour. Before us Yanks joined the land war.

One last clarification question:
The Railway units; Are these the ones we see in photographs, mounted in front of and interspersed with the freight cars to proect a train?
Mostly 2.0 & 3.7 cm weapons?
Not Heavy Flak guns that needed rails to move? Yes/No?

My German is non-existant, although in the 70's I could order a beer and ask for the location of the toilet.
(Stationed in Europe for three years 74-77).
Mostly in the Med, but some NATO cruises.
So I am over 50 myself.

Once again, Thanks to everyone for their answers and help.

Jay Whittle

[Larry deZeng]

Originally Posted by JayWhit

Thank You ALL for your answers and help.
It was getting me frustrated as Flak units are virtually ignored in the histories I have. Except for the "88's" as they were famous for brewing up French and Engllish armour. Before us Yanks joined the land war.
One last clarification question:
The Railway units; Are these the ones we see in photographs, mounted in front of and interspersed with the freight cars to proect a train?
Mostly 2.0 & 3.7 cm weapons?
Not Heavy Flak guns that needed rails to move? Yes/No?
My German is non-existant, although in the 70's I could order a beer and ask for the location of the toilet.
(Stationed in Europe for three years 74-77).
Mostly in the Med, but some NATO cruises.
So I am over 50 myself.
Once again, Thanks to everyone for their answers and help.
Jay Whittle

Great reply, Jay. No problemo.

Yes, the railway Flak-Abteilungen could be either schwere, gemischte or leichte. The one above, schw.Flak-Abt. 473(E) would have had 8.8 cm guns. Only rarely did a schw.Flak-Abt.(E) have anything heavier that that. The schw. Abt. were usually one battery to a train and were deployed on sidings in a marshalling yard or near a vital factory. The leichte Flak-Abt.(E) came in more varied arrangements, but they were used the same way and additionally to protect a wider selection of targets.

The railway Flak that had the Flak flatcars mixed in with normal freight cars were designated as follows: le.Flak-Abt.(ETr.). "ETr." is the abbreviation for Eisenbahn-Transport, meaning that they accompanied regular freight and sometimes passenger trains to protect them from low-flying aircraft.

The heavy railway guns that we have seen in film and photos that were rolled out from a tunnel, fired, and rolled back in to reload, were not Luftwaffe. They belonged to Heeres (Army) Eisenbahn-Artillerie-Abteilungen. Another example of these would be the famous "Anzio Annie" that shelled the Allied troops in the Anzio beachhead, January - May 1944.

Hope that helps,

Larry
Stationed in Germany (1958-59), Ethiopia (1961-62), Germany again (1963-66) and Vietnam/Thailand (1967-68).

[JayWhit]

Thanks.
So there were two types of Railway Flak units?

1) E or Eis. = Eisenbahn
These units protected Railstations and Marshalling yards, Rail spurs into factories, Rail Bridges & Etc.

2) ETr = Eisenbahn-Transport
These were the units on flatcars that were actually part of a moving train, and protected (or not) from strafing and partisan attacks.

Correct?

Thanks, Jay

[Larry deZeng]

Your (1) is perfect.

Your (2) needs further explanation. It is correct as stated, but le.Flak-Abt.(ETr.) designated as such did not come into existence until the second half of 1943 or early 1944. Prior to that, le.Flak could be found on flatcars mixed in with freight and passenger trains, but the individual guns and crews could belong to units of the Luftwaffen-Flak, Heeres-Flak-Btle., Heeres-Zugwach-Abteilungen, Heeres-Transport-Begleit-Btle., Heeres-Transport-Sicherungs-Btle. or Heeres-Eisenbahn-Sicherungs-Btle. In other words, 2.0 cm Flak guns and trained crews could have been provided by a variety of different units. But after mid-1943, this job was increasingly shifted to the Luftwaffe le.Flak-Abt.(ETr.) units.

[JayWhit]

THANKS !!!!!

Everything I wanted to know.

Great Site.

JW