9/KG53 and 3/KG27 Staffelabzeichen/Emblem

[Thomas H]

Hi all,

I'm confused, can someone show me what the difference is between the Staffelabzeichen of the above mentioned two kampfgeschwader.
In this thread http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ht=kg53&page=2 a picture is shown in post #9 that is suppose to be 9/KG53. In this same thread there is already a mention of this Staffelabzeichen being similar to the one of 3/KG27. I don't have any of the reference books referred to in this thread that show either of the Abzeichen.

I got these pictures of what I first thought was 9/KG53, because of the Abzeichen, but as the pictures show the kennung on the other side of the fuselage is 1G+?? of KG27, with a drawing of a dog or pig before the kennung

To me the 3 Abzeichen showing in the picture I put together look pretty similar? are the other two 3/KG27 or 9/KG53?

Can someone maybe post drawing or pictures of both Staffelabzeichen?

I would also like to know more about the fate of the HE111 in the picture.

Any help with this would be highly appreciated!

Thomas

[robert]

Hi,

the pig was a personal emblem painted on 1G+DL, which had been downed in the early days of Western Campaign. Below was an instription :"muss man haben!". And I think that your photo in left down corner shows the same plane (1G+DL).

Regards

Robert

[Thomas H]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for you fast reply! Do you know the crewmembers of this plane? Picture in the left down corner says on the back "Bauchlandung Oblt. Schlafke" or something like that. Don't know if one of the crewmembers from 1G+DL name sounds like this.

Kind regards, Thomas

ps. Just found this information online: Schlafke, Bernhard Oblt Kdr IV/KG-27 (3/41) He 111P & He 111H

[Larry Hickey]

Thomas,

I've got good photos in the EOE DB of 1G+DL on a railcar being transported for salvage/repair. Robert is correct with the code. Here is what we carry in the EOE DB on this one at present:

May 10, 1940: 3./KG27 Heinkel He111P-2. Badly damaged by S/Lt Abrioux of GC 6/1 during sortie to attack Lille-Seclin and also probably also that attacked by F/O Whitty of No.607 Squadron. Belly-landed in a field along the rue Haute at Cambron-Saint-Vincent, south-east of Ath (Belgium), 5.15 a.m. FF Uffz Otto Wehmeier captured unhurt, BF Uffz Manfred Kisker killed, BM Uffz Otto Miklitz captured badly wounded, admitted to hospital in Mons where leg amputated. BO Uffz Arthur Voigt captured wounded in shoulder and jaw, treated in hospital in Mons – later returned. Aircraft 1G+DL 100% write-off. Otto Wehmeier was amongst a number of German prisoners killed by artillery fire aboard ship in Dunkirk Harbour while awaiting transport to England on May 30. Arthur Voigt was also among the wounded and was transferred to hospital ashore from where he was later repatriated." Our team has a detailed account of all of this from Arthur Voight, and a local eye-witness has confirmed to one of our EOE members that this plane had the pig design on the side, which is well-lllustrated in photos both before and after the plane was lost, but not to my knowledge actually at the crash site. What we don't have, and would dearly love to have, is a photo of this aircraft down at the crash site. Can anyone help with that?

As to your other question, the unit insignia identified in various sources as possibly III./KG53, is, in fact the insignia of 3/KG27. Do you know where this photo in the salvage yard was taken, or anything else about it? If in Germany this could be 1G+BL that had a "big dog" on the forward upper fuselage and is purported to have force-landed back at base at Münster-Handorf AF badly shot up after an encounter with a French fighter on May 10, 1940. However, IIRC the insignia may not of been used on unit a/c that early. It is definitely 3./KG27, however.

Hope this helps.

[Thomas H]

Hi Larry,

Thank you very much for this information! much appreciated.

I don't have any information on where these photo's are taken. I don't think it is a big dog, so no 1G+BL, this because the German expression is: "Schwein muss man haben" (you must have luck). Your pictures of 1G+DL on the railcar could confirm the identify of this plane if the damage on the fuselage is the same.

As to your other question, the unit insignia identified in various sources as possibly III./KG53, is, in fact the insignia of 3/KG27.

This answers my question. So all three Staffelabzeichen I showed in my picture are 3/KG27. Did 9/KG53 have an own Abzeichen or just used the III/KG53 "Gruppe" abzeichen?

Kind regards, Thomas

[Larry Hickey]

Thomas,

In re-reading your original post, are you saying that the photos with the 3./KG27 "dropping bomb" insignia came from the other side of 1G+DL, the "pig" He111? Your photo of the pig a/c is cropped so I couldn't tell that it was taken in the same scrapyard, if it was. My photo on the rail car is the same aircraft as the "pig" design, unquestionably 1G+DL, and motto are the same. There was another loss FL that day of an aircraft with the "big dog" insignia, but it landed badly damaged back in Germany. If your photo of the starboard side of the He111 in the scrapyard is the same a/c as the pig a/c, 1G+DL, I'd be most pleased to know that. What is the context of your photo of the port side of 1G+DL? Was this possibly taken at the crash site?

Regards,

[Thomas H]

Hi Larry,

I have two pictures of the same a/c. Below you will find the compleet picture of the "pig" a/c that I cropped into my first posted picture. Both are taken at the same scrapyard. On my first picture it looks like the pig and kennung are balcked out.

The three "dropping bomb" insignia:

1: is from this plane (pig a/c other side)
2: comes from the picture in the other thread where I referred to
3: comes from a picture of (propably) Berhard Schlafke, Oblt and Kommandore of KG27, He111

Kr, Thomas