Savoia Marchetti S.79 wearing strange Luftwaffe Markings/Camouflage

[Clint Mitchell]

Well there is not a lot else it can be? Possible letters according to the photo are Q again?, S, G, or C.

CQ+HQ KlemmKL35 D0077
CQ+HS KlemmKL35W.Nr.1465W.Nr.1465 F0088 -1943-03-02
CQ+HG DornierDo17 Z-2W.Nr.4187W.Nr.4187later DN-61 Finland
CQ+HC Focke WulfFw58 Wetterflugstelle Konigsberg

Above codes from LEMB database. Are these codes the same in your source Dénes? A bit of a puzzle this one!

Clint

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Clinton78

Are these codes the same in your source Dénes? A bit of a puzzle this one!

Here is what I found:
CQ+HQ Klemm Kl 35
CQ+HS Klemm Kl 35
CQ+HG Dornier Do 17 Z-2
CQ+HC He 111 H-3

Puzzle it certainly is!

[Clint Mitchell]

Anyone know of cases where two aircraft could have used the same code? Any chance the HQ+CO Klemm Kl 35 could have been destroyed and the Savoia Marchetti S.79 given the code HQ+CO later or vice versa. I have noticed this before when a Hs126B-1 WNr.374 (V7+1K) was shot down the code was used again by 1./(H)32 when they got FW189A-2 WNr.125243 (V7+1K).

1./(H)32 info from here

Cheers

Clint

[Graham Boak]

The difference is between the unit code, which can indeed be multiply used, and the aircraft's individual identification, which cannot. Duplicate use may be a simple error: with so many aircraft being so handled, the complete absence of error would seem less likely.

Errors have been identified on RAF serials, a fairly directly comparable situation.

[RT]

CQ+HA HeinkelHe111 VIP transport in the Luftflotte 4 d
CQ+HA JunkersJu52 /3m geW.Nr.5989W.Nr.5989 D0025 d
CQ+HA JunkersW34 FFS A/B 121 d
CQ+HB Focke WulfFw58
CQ+HB HeinkelHe111 D0074/68 d
CQ+HC Focke WulfFw58 Wetterflugstelle Konigsberg
CQ+HG DornierDo17 Z-2W.Nr.4187W.Nr.4187later DN-61 Finland
CQ+HH JunkersJu52 /3m first D-ASCKFlugber./Luftflotte 4
CQ+HI JunkersJu52 /3m
CQ+HK SiebelFh104W.Nr.879W.Nr.879 M0002/8/17
CQ+HO Savoia MarchettiS.79
CQ+HQ KlemmKL35 D0077
CQ+HR CantZ.1007 d
CQ+HR KlemmKL35 FFS A/B 24 D0077 d
CQ+HS KlemmKL35W.Nr.1465W.Nr.1465 F0088 -1943-03-02
CQ+HT KlemmKL35 CQ+HUKlemmKL35 Schule/FAR.53 B0002
CQ+HW KlemmKL35
CQ+HY CaudronC.445 FFS A 12
CQ+HZ FieselerFi156

This list is at least interesting for one thing , it shows that these types of listings are pretty hard to build-up,
Quite for sure to CQ+HQ the right plane is the Kl35 , the code was given pres. in the order HQ/HR/HS..to HW, to planes of the same school.

Maybe those planes where at one moment, or an other, destroyed , codes given to new/bowty planes...or..

Remi

[Clint Mitchell]

Originally Posted by RT

Quite for sure to CQ+HQ the right plane is the Kl35 , the code was given pres. in the order HQ/HR/HS..to HW, to planes of the same school.

What about CQ+HO though Remi?

Clint

[Tom Willis]

Hi

I have issues not only with the origin of the SM 79 and how it came into German use but with the other Italian aircraft in the same Stkz block.
CQ+HR
Is this a genuine Stkz for a Cant Z.1007? I ask this because all I have seen is a Profile painting of the aircraft with the oddly coloured painted markings.
Has anyone seen a photo of this aircraft with the said Stkz?

Regards

Tom Willis

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Tom Willis

CQ+HR
Is this a genuine Stkz for a Cant Z.1007?

I have a Kl 35 for this Stkz.

[RolandF]

Have a look at K.Merrick´s 2nd vol. p.369 and you´ll see some double codes, i.e. registrations...

I´d like to quote from "Luftwaffenverordnungsblatt Nr.9 vom 20.02.1939" (taken from M.Ullmann´s book)concerning the use of Überführungskennzeichen (transfer codes):
"III.Gültigkeitsdauer
Das Überführungskennzeichen gilt nur für die Dauer des Überführungsfluges. Nach Eintreffen des Flugzeuges am Bestimmungsort ist es unverzüglich abzuwaschen. Die Dienststelle, die das Flugzeug übernimmt, teilt der Bauaufsicht des Lieferwerkes bzw. dem Luftzeugamt oder Luftpark innerhalb 3 Tagen nach Abholung mit, daß das Überführungskennzeichen zur anderweitigen Verwendung frei ist."

This means the Überführungkennzeichen, i.e. Stammkennzeichen is not a four letter code fixed for one certain plane but it may be re-used. This may be practicable in peace-time service but hardly to realise during wartime. But it is possible.I´m quite sure that Flying schools and other special units better related to the center of the Reich and its admisnistrations were using this possibilities to assign double registrations re-used for destroyed school planes.

I´ve always wondered why the "Stammkennzeichen" are regarded by you as a strictly fixed rule. No, it was thought as a flexible regulation - such as cars,btw - but war with its over-stretched administartion prevented it from being used for front planes.
What´s your opinion?

Regards

Roland

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by RolandF

Überführungkennzeichen, i.e. Stammkennzeichen is not a four letter code fixed for one certain plane but it may be re-used.

The two types of codes were totally different, do not mix them.
As far as I know, the Überführungkennzeichen were used pre-war and early war, and the first two letters always referred to the factory (i.e., HS for Henschel). These, indeed, were reusable.
However, the Stammkennzeichen were -at least theoretically - unique, of single use. Exceptions occurred, of course, due the imperfect bureaucracy. Our case might have been such an exception...