12.10.42 III/KG54 Losses over Malta.

[steve sheridan]

Hi, on this date the III/KG54 suffered several losses following ops over Malta.
My question is, im looking to clarify the units codes among the a/c lost.
The GQM loss lists gives all the III/KG54 a/c the normal codes starting with B3+**
However, Siegfried Radtke's book gives the codes as M7+** and i believe another title from Grub Street Publications also gives M7+**

The losses are:
W.Nr 140319 B3+KS or M7+KS Lt Ingo Menny,
W.Nr 140250 B3+FT or M7+FT Uffz Max Zettelmaier,
W.Nr 140296 B3+DR or M7+DR Obgef. Rudolf Pauli,
W.Nr 8606 B3+GS or M7+GS Fw. Hans Hertz,
W.Nr 5594 B3+FR or M7+FR Lt.Fritz Ohlmann,

Any confirmation would be most appreciated. I am aware that KG54 Reformed 1.9.42 in Catania from Kampfgruppe 806, so with much operational commitments may not have changed the unit codes around?

Best regs,
Steve.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

See that WNr 142219 reported on September 16th (lost September 7th) apparantly still used M7 codes (M7 + HL).

Guess the best source would be the NVM's if they are available

Regards,
Andreas B

[byron-]

there is another one loss on that date Steve,

FF. Uffz. Ulrich Seubert, Ju 88 A4 (M7+HT, W.Nr. 1092) 60% m. BO. Uffz. Walter Kosche,

BF. Gfr. Rolf Seelinger, BS. Gfr. Johann Hepp, alle (vw.), Bruchlandung infolge Flakbeschuss 12.10.42 bei Comiso, BS. Ogfr. Gustav Jindra (vw.) 12.10.42 Malta,


All of them are reported with M7


b.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Guys

Having only Radtke's book I am worried that in two e-mails now discussing KG 54 losses, there has been other WNr quoted on this list. Is it possible to get verified where the coruption lies?

11.10.42
Radtke: WNr 140115, this list: 141015

12.10.42
Radtke: WNr 140139, this list: 140319

Cheers
Stig

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

The original entries from GQM for the losses of 12.10.1942:

WNr 5594:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=142323

WNr 140139:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=142324

WNr 140250:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=142330

WNr 140296:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=142335

WNr 1092:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=142336

WNr 8606:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=142337


As you can see there are several discrepancies, mostly regarding spelling of names, but also codes (not only M7/B3 discrepancies).

The loss of 11.10.1942 as reported:

WNr 141015:
http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=142166

I do not have the book by Radtke, but I would assume he has been using Namentliche Verlustmeldungen for the unit in his work, which in cases will give additional details and have other WNr for example.

I also know a few Ju 88 buffs frequent this board ArtieBob probably the one with most information, and maybe he can shed some light on the 141015 or 140115 discussion.


Regards,
Andreas B

[RT]

At least for the 140250 we hv an other source the british report after inspection of the wreck B3+FT , the GQM give as shown by Andreas B3+ST....wonder if they made any prisoners..?

Rémi

[Stig Jarlevik]

Andreas/Rémi

Thanks. Appreciate your updates!

Cheers
Stig

[steve sheridan]

Gentlemen, many thanks for your observations and comments, it would appear that there are flaws somewhere amongst the records and obviously a number of errors have been transcribed along the way!

To fuel the fire further, again quoting from Radtke's book

11.10.42 Ju88A-4 B3+MH W.Nr 2539 Oblt Karl Palliardi hit by fighter, a/c damage state not given.... This a/c was reported 100% on 6.10.42 supposedly as B3+GH ???

Any further imput welcome.

Rgs,
Steve.

[Paul Giva]

If it is of any help, in Malta: The Spitfire Year, the following entry is made for Luftwaffe losses during the final raid of 11 October:

B3+MH (Oblt. Palliardi); aircraft damaged; observer (Uffz. Horst Lenz) killed.

Originally Posted by steve sheridan

To fuel the fire further, again quoting from Radtke's book

11.10.42 Ju88A-4 B3+MH W.Nr 2539 Oblt Karl Palliardi hit by fighter, a/c damage state not given.... This a/c was reported 100% on 6.10.42 supposedly as B3+GH ???

Any further imput welcome.

Rgs,
Steve.