355 FG engagements w/experten

[Richard Mills]

Originally Posted by Leo Etgen

Hello guys

Two quick additions to Bill's list:

Steinke: on 29 April 1944 in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 440 266) crashed 1 kilometer southwest Magdeburg
Schmidt: on 3 August 1944 in Fw 190 A-8/R8 (W.Nr. 670 777) in aerial combat (unknown location)

This information from Prien's IV./JG 3 volume.

Horrido!

Leo

Gents

I am interested in finding any information I can concerning Rolf Steinke of 12./JG3 as I am about to purchase his award documents.

Can I take it from the information in this thread that Steinke was shot down and killed by a USAF pilot of the 355 Fighter Group?

If this is indeed the case, is there any way of putting a name to this USAF pilot?

Any help or pointers in the right direction really will be very well received.

Hopeful in anticipation.

Regards Richard.

[kb]

Originally Posted by Richard Mills

Gents

I am interested in finding any information I can concerning Rolf Steinke of 12./JG3 as I am about to purchase his award documents.

Can I take it from the information in this thread that Steinke was shot down and killed by a USAF pilot of the 355 Fighter Group?

If this is indeed the case, is there any way of putting a name to this USAF pilot?

Any help or pointers in the right direction really will be very well received.

Hopeful in anticipation.

Regards Richard.

Re 29 April the 355th filed one claim on this date, by ace Henry Brown over a 109 near Brunswick at 1145; Steinke went down roughly two hours later.

Other P51 groups:
4th FG filed no aerial claims (over fighters).
352nd filed two, 1-109 and 1-190; I don't have location data.
355th per above
363rd (9th AF P51 squadron) filed no claims
357th filed no claims

The only other P51 equipped group in the ETO at this time was 354th FG, but unfortunately I have no info on their activities this day. I'd lay odds that the 354th is the outfit that shot down Steinke.

[Leo Etgen]

Hi guys

Here are additional details of the losses concerning a couple of the pilots that Bill listed in his opening post. I hope this information is still useful after all the time that has passed since then!

Sigmund: in Bf 110 G-4 "D5 + AD" (W.Nr. 5560) southwest of Göttingen along with Bordfunker Feldwebel Hugo Bauer and Bordschütze Unteroffizier Johannes Dittrich
Mertens: in Bf 109 G-6 "White 1" (W.Nr. 161 358) over Andernach after ramming a B-24 four-engined bomber, bailed out wounded
Segatz: in Fw 190 A-7 "White 23" (W.Nr. 430 315) south of Luckau by fighters
Harloff: in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 16 527) over Grosskitzighofen by P-38 twin-engined fighters
Roisch: on 28 July 1943 in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 15 411) over Lexmond, southwest of Vianen

Horrido!

Leo

[kb]

Originally Posted by Leo Etgen

Roisch: on 28 July 1943 in Bf 109 G-6 (W.Nr. 15 411) over Lexmond, southwest of Vianen

Roisch was almost certainly downed by 4th FG.

Lt. Duane Beeson- 1 ME109 1210-1220 Westhooft-Emmerich area
Capt Roy Evans- 1 ME109 1155 15mi (25km) w of Arnhem
Capt Carl Miley- 1 ME109 1200 east of Rotterdam

[kb]

Originally Posted by Leo Etgen

Segatz: in Fw 190 A-7 "White 23" (W.Nr. 430 315) south of Luckau by fighters

Interesting report/possible link from 363rd FG pilot Morton Kammerlohr

"We were a little southwest of Berlin when the bombers we escorted started their bomb run...we had started our climb, when he (1stLt Frank O'Connor) called me again to alert me of a FW190 at 12 oclock high and for me to serve as a decoy by turning in front of him to get his attention, so he could get on his tail. It worked perfectly; when O'Connor was ready to blow him away, he told me to make a hard left turn. The FockeWulf pilot didn't know what hit him; down it went..."

Lt O'Connor's claim is listed as "50 miles (75Km) sw of Berlin".

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Richard Mills

Gents

I am interested in finding any information I can concerning Rolf Steinke of 12./JG3 as I am about to purchase his award documents.

Can I take it from the information in this thread that Steinke was shot down and killed by a USAF pilot of the 355 Fighter Group?

If this is indeed the case, is there any way of putting a name to this USAF pilot?

Any help or pointers in the right direction really will be very well received.

Hopeful in anticipation.

Regards Richard.

Richard - I did not see this until today.

No, not likely a 355th pilot - more likely a 352nd FG score in the s. Haldensleben area (Me 109) by Cpt E.L. Abbot. The 354th FG got their scores in the Gardelegen to Brandenburg axis so they were further north and escorting the 2nd BD B-24s.

Equally probable - downed by B-17 in Magdeburg area.

[Richard Mills]

Originally Posted by kb

Re 29 April the 355th filed one claim on this date, by ace Henry Brown over a 109 near Brunswick at 1145; Steinke went down roughly two hours later.

Other P51 groups:
4th FG filed no aerial claims (over fighters).
352nd filed two, 1-109 and 1-190; I don't have location data.
355th per above
363rd (9th AF P51 squadron) filed no claims
357th filed no claims

The only other P51 equipped group in the ETO at this time was 354th FG, but unfortunately I have no info on their activities this day. I'd lay odds that the 354th is the outfit that shot down Steinke.

Originally Posted by drgondog

Richard - I did not see this until today.

No, not likely a 355th pilot - more likely a 352nd FG score in the s. Haldensleben area (Me 109) by Cpt E.L. Abbot. The 354th FG got their scores in the Gardelegen to Brandenburg axis so they were further north and escorting the 2nd BD B-24s.

Equally probable - downed by B-17 in Magdeburg area.

Gents

I really appreciate your input into answering my question concerning the downing of Rolf Steinke on 29-Apr-44. As a result, I have a couple more questions on the subject:

Is it known whether the claim by Cpt. E.L. Abbot can lead to a positive ID as the pilot who downed Steinke? Has this claim been attributed to another Jagdfleiger other than Steinke?

Also as indicated, he may also of been shot down by defensive fire from one or more B-17 aircraft. Are there any records which can be explored detailing the claims of B-17 crews? I do appreciate that this may be an impossible ask however, from where I am sitting it is worth asking the question.

Thank you in anticipation.

Regards Richard.

[kb]

Richard,

I did a quick check in Herr Prien's unit history of IV/JG3.

IV/JG 3 flew two sorties on 29 April 1944. After assembling with other gruppen in the Magdeburg area it engaged B17s between 1100-1120. The aircraft it attacked were coming from Brunswick and had an escort of "40 Mustangs" (roughly a group). They claimed 5 destroyed and 4 separations.

After this attack the group landed at Salzwedel where it refueled and rearmed then attacked a B24 wing near Gardelegen claiming several more separations at 1320. No mention of an escort

For the entire day IV/JG3 lost 3 ME109s and the attached Sturmstaffel lost 5 FW190s . Contrary to my previous post, Prien's loss list for IV/JG3 aircrew is silent on the time of day of Steinke's downing.

Abbot would appear to be the best possibility to have encountered Steinke, other than a bomber gunner.

[Richard Mills]

Originally Posted by kb

Richard,

I did a quick check in Herr Prien's unit history of IV/JG3.

IV/JG 3 flew two sorties on 29 April 1944. After assembling with other gruppen in the Magdeburg area it engaged B17s between 1100-1120. The aircraft it attacked were coming from Brunswick and had an escort of "40 Mustangs" (roughly a group). They claimed 5 destroyed and 4 separations.

After this attack the group landed at Salzwedel where it refueled and rearmed then attacked a B24 wing near Gardelegen claiming several more separations at 1320. No mention of an escort

For the entire day IV/JG3 lost 3 ME109s and the attached Sturmstaffel lost 5 FW190s . Contrary to my previous post, Prien's loss list for IV/JG3 aircrew is silent on the time of day of Steinke's downing.

Abbot would appear to be the best possibility to have encountered Steinke, other than a bomber gunner.

kb

Thank you very much indeed for the additional information concerning IV./JG3 and Rolf Steinke. This has helped immeasurably in allowing a picture to be formed around Rolf Steinke's last day.

I take it from yours and previous posts that the FG providing escort cover in this axis of Operation was indeed the 352 FG?

This being the case, are there any pointers as to where I can look to see which BG's on 29-Apr-44 and were consequently covered by the 352 FG?

Any help in this matter really will be very much appreciated indeed.

Regards Richard.

[drgondog]

Originally Posted by Richard Mills

kb

Thank you very much indeed for the additional information concerning IV./JG3 and Rolf Steinke. This has helped immeasurably in allowing a picture to be formed around Rolf Steinke's last day.

I take it from yours and previous posts that the FG providing escort cover in this axis of Operation was indeed the 352 FG?

This being the case, are there any pointers as to where I can look to see which BG's on 29-Apr-44 and were consequently covered by the 352 FG?

Any help in this matter really will be very much appreciated indeed.

Regards Richard.

Abbot was leading 328FS/352FG on this day. He could not locate his assigned B-17s (almost certainly 3rdBD- 1st TF) attacking Berlin, then Magdebird. He led his squadron down to attack airfields. He led the squadron west from Neuhaldersleben and encountered a 109 coming from west to east..

He shot it down but it was too low for the pilot to bail out and it crash landed at high speed.