Yellow Nosed Bf109s

[Six Nifty .50s]

Originally Posted by John Beaman

Roger:

Begining in 1941, almost all bomber crews said they were attacked by yellow-nosed 109s or 190s. The legend of the "yellow-nosed boys of Abbeville" was being built. These were the "toughest" Luftwaffe fighter pilots. After all, who wants to say they were attacked by just average fighter pilots?

By December 1944, almost all fancy decorations were gone from Luftwaffe fighters save colored bands on the rear fuselage.

I am looking at a wartime color photo of 'Black 12' a Bf 109G-10/R2 that served with 2./NAG 14 at the end of the war. The aircraft had a yellow cowl and yellow rudder, but the spinner appears to be a darker color, or perhaps very dirty. The plane was parked in front of a hangar and must have been captured shortly before the photo was made.

[Smudger Smith]

Thanks Six Nifty .50s

I’m in a predicament, do I go with the eyewitness reports from a number of returning airgunners who with some conviction record a yellow nosed Bf 109 or have a standard late war paint scheme.

Is there a possibility that a single Bf109 could have had a yellow spinner or lower engine cowling?

I’m looking for some advice or guidance.

Both the artist and I are extremely eager to make this encounter as accurate and authentic as possible.

[John Beaman]

I am looking at a wartime color photo of 'Black 12' a Bf 109G-10/R2 that served with 2./NAG 14 at the end of the war. The aircraft had a yellow cowl and yellow rudder, but the spinner appears to be a darker color, or perhaps very dirty. The plane was parked in front of a hangar and must have been captured shortly before the photo was made

This well-known aircraft was from one of those units assigned to what was left of Luftflotte 4 in Hungary and Czechoslovakia. In March 1945 the fighter and ground attack units in this command were directed to replace the yellow "V" marking under their left wing with a yellow band around the from cowling and a yellow rudder. The yellow fuselage band was also to be removed. This is the source of that NAG a/c's markings. The pilot flew to a USAAF base to surrender as did II./JG 52 and SG 2. The single-engined fighter/attack units in the command were JG 52 and elements of SG 2, 10, and 77

The original context of the question about yellow noses was for JG 3, and JG 27 in fighting RAF bombers. The answer is that there has not been a documented case of either of these units, at the time period mentioned, having a yellow nose. The spinners for the period have been seen to have a uniform dark color (black or dark green) or dark with a white spiral. As previously stated, this latter was ordered in July of 1944, at the same time ordering the removal of the yellow from the engine paniers. This yellow marking, started during 1940, was retained by all Luftwaffe fighters in all theaters until this July 44 time. It is often thought to be the source for the many claims of "yellow noses" by RAF and USAAF crews. While a fighter rolling away and giving a flash of that yellow on the pannier would be distinct, it is a far cry from a "yellow-nose" fighter as in the context of markings during the BoB and the RAF bombing campaigns 1941 and 1942 into 1943, when several Luft. units had aircraft with all yellow noses.

It is certainly possible that some older aircraft like a G-6 or G-14 still carried on the rolls of JG 3 or 27 might have retained a yellow painted pannier in December 1944, I personnally doubt it, seeing what photos are available.

[Smudger Smith]

Gents,

A simple question, which I hope, someone can answer (please)

Is there a possibility that a Me 109 operating against from Germany could have had in December 1944 a….

1. A yellow spinner
2. A yellow lower engine cowling.

Any help appreciated.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Smudger Smith

Gents,

A simple question, which I hope, someone can answer (please)

Is there a possibility that a Me 109 operating against from Germany could have had in December 1944 a….

1. A yellow spinner
2. A yellow lower engine cowling.

Any help appreciated.

There's always a possibility of non-standard markings on individual aircraft but the rules had changed back in the summer of 1944 for aircraft on the Western Front. Go to http://www.ghostbombers.com and click on the tag for "Markings and camouflage" for some of the instructions issued to Luftwaffe units.

[John Beaman]

It is possible for a yellow spinner in December 1944, but very doubtful. I have not seen one to date.

It is possible for an a/c to have a yellow engine pannier. It is more likely that a G-6 still in service might have a yellow pannier. Far less likely for a G-14 and very unlikely for a G-14/AS, a G-10, or a K-4.

There are no definitive answers. We are giving you our best and most likely guess.

[Smudger Smith]

John,

Appreciate all your replies.

Regards