Yellow Nosed Bf109s

[Smudger Smith]

Gents,


I’ve commissioned an oil painting by the aviation artist Keith Aspinal depicting an encounter on December 12th 1944 between Avro Lancaster’s of No.31 Base and a number of Bf109’s and FW190’s over Witten.

My question, a number of crew reports and Combat Reports state that the formation was attack by a number of yellow nosed Me109’s. Using Tony Woods excellent site I can confirm that the following Luftwaffe units were involved.

I./JG 3
2./JG 3
3./JG 3
4./JG 3
10./JG 3

4./JG 27
13./JG 27
16./JG 27

Stab IV./JG 27


All of the above units made claims for this encounter, did any have a yellow nose, or spinner.

Any help most welcome.

[John Beaman]

Roger:

Begining in 1941, almost all bomber crews said they were attacked by yellow-nosed 109s or 190s. The legend of the "yellow-nosed boys of Abbeville" was being built. These were the "toughest" Luftwaffe fighter pilots. After all, who wants to say they were attacked by just average fighter pilots?

By December 1944, almost all fancy decorations were gone from Luftwaffe fighters save colored bands on the rear fuselage. Many had done away with all unit insignia. An order in July 1944 directed that all fighter units paint their spinners black with a white spiral stripe. By in large this was done, although erratically in the middle of intense combat operations over Normandy and the retreat into the Reich. Ground crews did not have a chance to do this all at once. Some were still one color, maybe green 70 and others varied in style.

Photos of JG 3 and JG 27 at the time show they complied with this. I have not seen one with what could be interpreted to be a yellow nose or spinner.

[Christer Bergström]

By December 1944, almost all fancy decorations were gone from Luftwaffe fighters

All?

http://hem2.passagen.se/galland/Christmas.gif

[Smudger Smith]

Gents

Ok, if a yellow nose or spinner is so unlikely, why did so many crews report yellow ‘nosed’ Me109’s? I appreciate the Abbeville syndrome but this late in the war. :?

Is it not possible that an individual pilot could have personalised his aircraft. ?

Can anyone please direct me to where I can see examples of JG 3 or JG 27 Me109 camouflage schemes late 44 early 1945. The painting will depict a Me109 attacking an Avro Lancaster, I’m keen to get the camouflage as accurate as possible.

Any guidance most welcome

[John Beaman]

Hi Christer: I am afraid your link does not work for me. It takes me to a site which says, in Swedish, I think, that the link is not valid. BTW I did not say "all". I said "almost all".

Smudger: The Allied Abbeville Boys syndrome went on the entire war and was attributed to almost all Luftwaffe fighter units on the western front. The books on JG 27 and JG 3 by Jochen Prien and others will give you plenty of late war schemes.

[brewerjerry]

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazin...file_bf109.htm

[Christer Bergström]

Okay, John. In three steps:

Go here:

http://hem2.passagen.se/galland/

Click on "News"

Then click on "Merry Christmas"

You see - not all were that dull. . .

8)

BTW - Isn't there something familiar over the pilot in the cockpit?

[John Beaman]

...Is that Claes in the cockpit? Did not realize he had a white beard!

[Smudger Smith]

Gents,

Appreciate your help.

Could a Me109 of either JG 3 or JG 27 operating in defence of the Reich late 1944 have had a painted yellow nose section or spinner. :?

I am sorry to labour the point but I really want to portray an authentic Me109 of JG 3 or JG 27 circa December 1944.

If the answer is no, I can exclude the reports.

I’m certain any deviation in camouflage schemes or non-authentic markings will be pointed out rather quickly. :x

Any help or advice welcome.

[Franek Grabowski]

I have a report that mentions maroon spinner on a Fw 190 in the late 1944. I presume this could have been an illusion caused by a spiral spinner combined with lighting conditions.