GRAF SPEE's AR196s 1939 - Page 2 - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Stig Jarlevik · #11 30th May 2007, 22:00

Oh oh

Forgot to mention that in Avions it is claimed that the roundel underneath T3+AH was a French one! They also claim another Ar 196A-2 onboard HSK Widder (this time from 5./Bordfl.Gr.196) was also painted in French colours.

Cheers
Stig

Seaplanes · #12 31st May 2007, 12:54

The Avions magazine may be right and also I may be right. From the photo I have seen it is impossible to tell if the "Graf Spee" Arado carried French or RAF roundels. The quality of the photo is not that good. It is correct that the Arado on "Widder" had French navy roundels with the anchor. The "Graf Spee" Arado roundels did not have the anchor.
And to Stig, all my info has been obtained by numerous visits to Bundesarchiv in Freiburg and the National Archives (PRO) in London over many years. I believe the same is the case for many of us contributing with information on this forum. Book your flight and go there, I can assure you it is great fun.

Stig Jarlevik · #13 31st May 2007, 21:36

Thanks Seaplanes

Wish I was a language genius and had both the money and time to spend researching historic documents in a true fashion. Unfortunately this is not so, and I have to remain an enthusiast. This however does not dampen my admiration for those who do!!

Jealous? I guess a little...

Cheers
Stig

Brian · #14 31st May 2007, 23:29

Thanks Seaplanes and Stig - I'm grateful to both of you and to all who have enlightened me.

I have not seen the photo showing roundels on the undersides of the wings of Graf Spee's Ar196, and was not aware of this attempt to deceive. I know all's fair in love and war, but was this not breaking some international rule of war?

Cheers
Brian

jambock220 · #15 28th November 2011, 15:36

There was a second pilot, Fl. U'oofz. Werner Grotzky, as seen on the arriving list in Argentina.
I have found five Luftwaffe crew on board: two air and three ground crew.
Good winds.

Brian · #16 28th November 2011, 17:06

Hi Jambock

Thanks for the additional gen. Too late for Volume I of Flying Sailors at War, but I will add to the Addendum for Volume 2.

Cheers
Brian

jambock220 · #17 28th November 2011, 23:25

Hi Brian,
Could you confirm the main pilot's name: he is said as Heinrich Bongards, but I have also found as Bongarts.
Good winds.

jambock220 · #18 30th November 2011, 01:35

Dear Brian,
I have sent you a private message.
Cheers,
Jambock

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