He 111 from KGr. 100 - 14 August 1940

[Nick Beale]

I need to run this all by Peter Cornwell, but it looks like we've made significant progress here.

A starting point for progress has to be the documented losses on KGr. 100's first operations from France. On 13/14 August - the first operational night - the Gruppe reported just one aircraft lost, that which force landed at Pointe de Mousterlin. Neither Wakefield nor Ultra mention a second casualty.

The next operation took place on the 15/16th: one Heinkel was missing, one force landed near Dinard (north coast of Brittany), a third force landed near Bordeaux. KGr. 100 requested replacements for all three.

You're quite right that anyone coming down near Bordeaux was probably lost, having overshot their own base by almost 300 km. An aircraft returning damaged from a raid over England would be far more likely to set down on the northern coast of France, the nearest landfall.

[RT]

You're quite right that anyone coming down near Bordeaux was probably lost, having overshot their own base by almost 300 km. An aircraft returning damaged from a raid over England would be far more likely to set down on the northern coast of France, the nearest landfall.


nOTHING TO SAY THAT kgR.100 was crack unit ....

Rémi

[edNorth]

Reading thugh this thead, it appears to me LH is lacking most of the primary data and relying on other to solve the issue. Questionable process to my eyes. As old editor, I would send the manuscript back.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by edNorth

Reading through this thead, it appears to me LH is lacking most of the primary data and relying on other to solve the issue. Questionable process to my eyes. As old editor, I would send the manuscript back.

Everything I've contributed to this thread has been available on my website for more than four years, except for a message serial number.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Regarding the mysterious FL 6N+NH FL on what is thought to be a French beach, originally, I wondered if this could be the following 3./KGr100 a/c:

According to the Revised EoE lW Loss Listing:
'"19 August 1940: 3./KGr.100 Heinkel He111H-2. Forced-landed near Les Sables due to petrol failure on return from sortie to Derby. BO Lt Alfred Kunz badly injured - admitted to hospital in La Roche, rest of crew unhurt. Aircraft 60% damaged but repairable."

However, Nick Beale's KGr100 web post entry for that day suggests that this a/c was probably coded 6N+DL. It was reported by a recon a/c as lying "6km. SE of Les Sables d'Olonee, 200 meters from the beach." and "burnt out." This can't be 6N+NH as it is clearly on a beach and was fully intact when photographed. Does anyone have photos of a 6N+DL burned out at Les Sables? I don't know how a 60% damaged a/c is consistent with being burned out so we might have to adjust the EoE Loss Listing here.

There are two much more viable candidates for 6N+NH during August 1940; another loss on 19 August, listed in our DB only as:

"19 August 1940: KGr.100 Heinkel He111H-2. Crashed at Crozon due to engine failure following sortie to Derby, cause not stated. No crew casualties. Aircraft 100% write-off."

Crozon is in Brittany on a peninsula, so it has a lot of surrounding beaches. The lack of any casualties indicates either a FL or a crew bail out. There is no staffel listed. The problem I have with this one is that the background beaches in my FL photos do not show a very rugged coastline backdrop, which is visible in some of the photos of Crozon on the internet. Otherwise, this might make an excellent candidate for 6N+NH.

The other candidate for 6N+NH that I see is this listing, with no Staffel identified, on 18 August 1940. There is no info on Nick's website for either of these two:

"18 August 1940: KGr.100 Heinkel He111H. Crash-landed at Dinard due to mechanical failure following sortie to attack Castle Bromwich. No crew casualties. Aircraft 100% write-off."

Dinard is also a coastal town in Brittany with fine beaches. The lack of crew casualties and indications of a crash-landing make a beach landing a distinct possibility. Even if the a/c was eventually salvaged, it could well have been initially listed in both these entries as a 100% write off.

Any further information or thoughts?

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I have a further problem with another 1./KGr100 He111H wreck. Two photos of it badly crashed in a planted farm field show the fuselage code as 6N+HH. It also has the W.Nr.3234 on the rudder. I believe that the location was marked as at Nantes, which could be the original crash site, or a salvage dump to which the wreckage was removed.

We presently have in the EoE DB this entry for 19 August:

"19 August 1940: 1./KGr.100 Heinkel He111H-3. Crash-landed at Vertou, 20 km east of Nantes, due to petrol failure on return from night sortie to Derby. FF Lt Albrecht Zetzsche injured, HB Uffz Otto Bollmann badly injured - both admitted to hospital in Nantes, BF Uffz [ ] Friedrich and BM Fw Heinz Bitter both slightly injured. Aircraft 6N+AH 80% damaged - write-off."

I'm wondering if this could be a coding error for 6N+HH? Nick's website entry for 19 August doesn't cover this loss.

Does anyone have any information that would help resolve this?

[Larry Hickey]

Nick,

You are right, some of the problems with dates has been that when the original loss files were compiled for overnight missions, this was done before your ULTRA DB was published. I'm quite clear now that our 13 August entry for Quimper should be the early hours of 14 August, and our 14 August loss dates should be the early hours of 16 August. These would adjust the loss dates for 6N+CA and 6N+DH. Peter C. is now in the process of combing your website for proper updates to all of our listings. He hadn't updated them for ULTRA information for quite some time.

Thanx for making all this info available on your excellent website.

[RT]

19 August 1940: 1./KGr.100 Heinkel He111H-3. Crash-landed at Vertou, 20 km east of Nantes, due to petrol failure on return from night sortie to Derby. FF Lt Albrecht Zetzsche injured, HB Uffz Otto Bollmann badly injured - both admitted to hospital in Nantes, BF Uffz [ ] Friedrich and BM Fw Heinz Bitter both slightly injured. Aircraft 6N+AH 80% damaged - write-off."

Just to add that it rammed teleph.pole probably wing went out..

Rémi

[Nick Beale]

"19 August 1940: 1./KGr.100 Heinkel He111H-3. Crash-landed at Vertou, 20 km east of Nantes, due to petrol failure on return from night sortie to Derby. FF Lt Albrecht Zetzsche injured, HB Uffz Otto Bollmann badly injured - both admitted to hospital in Nantes, BF Uffz [ ] Friedrich and BM Fw Heinz Bitter both slightly injured. Aircraft 6N+AH 80% damaged - write-off."

Or yet another variation here: http://www.absa3945.com/Pertes%20Bre...tlantique.html

[steve sheridan]

This code is also quoted in Jean-Louis Roba's KG100 book as 6N+KH.
To further muddy the waters!

Best regs,
Steve.