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Old 13th March 2005, 04:06
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?

Today I flicked through the latest issue of Le Fana de l'Aviation (Febr. 2005).
The feature article, titled: 'Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?', written by a Russian researcher, Dmitry Khazanov, deals with the air victory claims of the top fighter ace of all times.
I did not have a chance to read much of the article, but based on the title, the Russian writer doubts the veradicity of most of Hartmann's victory claims.

I would like to hear from someone, who has read the article and the conclusion drawn by the author.

Dénes
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Old 13th March 2005, 17:42
marsyao marsyao is offline
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Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád
Today I flicked through the latest issue of Le Fana de l'Aviation (Febr. 2005).
The feature article, titled: 'Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?', written by a Russian researcher, Dmitry Khazanov, deals with the air victory claims of the top fighter ace of all times.
I did not have a chance to read much of the article, but based on the title, the Russian writer doubts the veradicity of most of Hartmann's victory claims.

I would like to hear from someone, who has read the article and the conclusion drawn by the author.

Dénes
I am very interesting in this article, feel so sorry that I could not read Russian, my opnion is that every fighter pilots overclaimed, Hartmann was no exception, if we accept the reseanable 2:1 overcliamed rate, the real Hartmann's "kills" would be 180-200, that would not surprised me, but 80 ? that was unbelieveble, that was almost equal to claim that Hartmann was a deliberatly liar, dose Mr Khazanov have any reall evidence to support his claim ? Or is this article just another propaganda ? What is Mr Khazanov's reputation in the historay research area ?
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Old 13th March 2005, 18:39
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Ruy Horta Ruy Horta is offline
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Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marsyao
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád
Today I flicked through the latest issue of Le Fana de l'Aviation (Febr. 2005).
The feature article, titled: 'Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?', written by a Russian researcher, Dmitry Khazanov, deals with the air victory claims of the top fighter ace of all times.
Dénes
I am very interesting in this article, feel so sorry that I could not read Russian, my opnion is that every fighter pilots overclaimed, Hartmann was no exception
Since Dénes is describing this article as a feature in Le Fana de l'Aviation it would suffice if you read french!

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Old 13th March 2005, 18:46
marsyao marsyao is offline
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No, do not read French either, I only read Chinese and English, and I believe this article was first published in Russian, I heard someone mentioned it before.
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Old 14th March 2005, 07:09
karlenko karlenko is offline
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It never published in russian

Hi
As I know, it never published in russian. However I can ask russian text from author.
Dmitriy
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Old 14th March 2005, 11:21
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Hartmann

I haven't read the article myself...however Hans Ring has compiled a lengthy 5-page reply rebutting most of the arguments ('facts') presented therein...the piece is awaiting translation before hopefully appearing in a future issue..
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Old 14th March 2005, 16:25
marsyao marsyao is offline
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FalkeEins and karlenko, very interesting, would one of you genttlemen be nice enough to give us some at least brief information about Mr Khazanov's and Mr Ring's rebuke ? I would be very appreciated
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Old 14th March 2005, 17:22
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Hartmann's air victories

The basic question is that is there a complete, final list with all of Hartmann's 352 victory claims? AFAIK, only the first 150 vics., as written in his first logbook, are known 100%, as his second logbook was stolen when he surrendered in 1945.

Recently, the French aviation magazine, Avions, published a long article on him, incl. a reconstruction of his victory claims. The second part of his claims list was spotty, at the best (and did not overlap with the info published by Tony Wood).

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Old 14th March 2005, 17:26
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?

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Originally Posted by marsyao
What is Mr Khazanov's reputation in the historay research area ?
Mr. Khazanov has published several books and articles related to the air war on the Eastern Front.

I have heard that his works are generally well researched. However, I did not read any of his books, as I don't know Russian.
Opinions?

Dénes
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Old 16th March 2005, 03:38
marsyao marsyao is offline
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Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?

Fair enough, Denes, please kind enough to give us more details when you have a chance to finish this article.
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