![]() |
|
Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Moelders vs Galland vs Wick
[quote=Franek Grabowski;259720]Nick
The list suffers from one problem. It is not possible to make such an attribution without the in depth knowledge on the enemy losses and circumstances. The marigin of error is just too great. Quite a number of losses were due to other reasons, bad weather, pilot errors or friendly fire. Lack of German combat reports is a serious issue as well. As to particular cases from your list. Hi Franek, Given that there are only ever a finite number of enemy losses, I believe we can at least give our best attempt at this kind of thing and try to find out what happened in each engagement. Some are clear cut, others not so. If we keep our minds open and choose our wording carefully, we can make fair attributions. To leave it uninvestigated is to stay ignorant |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Moelders vs Galland vs Wick
Quote:
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Moelders vs Galland vs Wick
Would you say that is enough to render the whole practice of matching claims to losses invalid? You have, after all, helped me with some real and valuable corrections here
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Moelders vs Galland vs Wick
Hi,
same source 9.9.38 1 I-16 from a Spanish squadron. Pilot was killed. 13.9.39 This is very puzzling. According to Soviet sources Moelders attacked alone the entire no.7 squadron of I-16s and he managed to shoot down 3-4 (!) I-16s. Reason of this debacle was that they were all young and inexperienced pilots. Lost aircraft were marked with following numbers: SM-125, SM-154, SM-178 and SM-192. One pilot was killed - Jaime Sau Colom, one was posted MIA and another was wounded. The last pilot - Spanish guy named Aresti - landed at enemy airfield - he stated that it was his first air combat and he became lost. 23.9.39 Most likely he attacked a formation of 6 SB-2 bombers. Between 09.40 and 11.00 hrs the bombers were in action and were attacked by 3 Bf109s. Four out of six bomber`s machine-guns jammed. Before the bombers could be helped by the fighters all three SB-2s of leading section were shot up (totally 100 bullet holes were found). 2 SB-2s were forced down at forward airfields and one of them must be belly-landed. 1 observer was wounded in leg and 1 air gunner in hand. Robert |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Moelders vs Galland vs Wick
Hi,
10.10.38 Moelders was a part of formation of six Bf109s, which attacked a group of 24 I-16s, which were protecting a formation of six SB-2s. One I-16 was hit and damaged by Bf109. Spanish pilot was wounded but he managed to nurse his shot-up fighter back to base. Robert |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Moelders vs Galland vs Wick
Quote:
Any chance you might have a name of the pilot who made it home? It would be helpful to have that detail if you can provide it |
#7
|
||||
|
||||
![]() hi,
Thank you all for this info, i need other source and version on the info i have on SCW, i could add some little info.. 23.9.38 SB-2s escort by I-16 from 2ª esc, MGs jammed on four of the SBs and several of the bombers where badly shot-up had to land in fighter bases, but none were lost, aircraft of Boris Stepanovich Sharonov with PT Nechiporenko badly damaged was able to land at Reus and other SB also badly damaged at Valls. on fighters only what Nick have: Grupo 21, *, Only one lost seems Margalef , i-16, 3ª esc, KIA regards
__________________
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger [Wingman], you have lost your battle." Dietrich Hrabak "The wingman is absolutely indispensable. I look after the wingman. The wingman looks after me....." Francis S. "Gabby" Gabreski,"The first rule of all air combat is to see the opponent first." Adolf Galland |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Moelders vs Galland vs Wick
Quote:
sorry no name given. Regards Robert |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Moelders vs Galland vs Wick
Well, matching claims and losses is not just collating known lists of claims and losses. Some research is necessary, as otherwise it could lead to wrong conclusions. You try to asses accuracy of claims of pilots, but it is not possible in such a simple way.
|
![]() |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Need info on early war history and a/c markings of Lt Helmut Wick | Larry Hickey | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 11 | 23rd December 2012 02:26 |
Helmut Wick kills on 25th August 1940 | Jon | Allied and Soviet Air Forces | 11 | 22nd August 2010 00:56 |
My Moelders Biography | Kurt Braatz | Books and Magazines | 17 | 16th December 2008 19:43 |
Werner Moelders and those who crashed with him | Stormfighter | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 2 | 5th July 2008 09:28 |
Werknummer + Squadron He 111 Moelders died on | Adriano Baumgartner | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 14 | 13th March 2007 11:59 |