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Old 6th January 2010, 21:32
APOLLO118 APOLLO118 is offline
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Whitley Z6667 July 4th/5th 1941 Help needed.

Hi, Researching my relative who was killed whilst on a Night time exercise Night of 4th July - Very early hours 02.45 hrs of 5th July 1941 Crashed only a few miles from 10 O.T.U. R.A.F. Abingdon, Plane was a Whitley Mk v Bomber Z6667 From 10 O.T.U. Abingdon, Official reports say it broke up in flight and crashed but I Was always told it was shot down and through investigations and accounts from a Canadian whom new a crewmember on that flight states it was a German "Sneak raider" [Intruder?].
I Would like to have oppinions on who might have shot the Whitley down?

I Have a possible match for this but would welcome any thoughts, Another possibility is that the Sneak Raider/Intruder was then shot down failling to return home thus no kill was recorded ! Many thanks, Ian.

Last edited by APOLLO118; 6th January 2010 at 23:38. Reason: Added new info.
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Old 7th January 2010, 16:27
Larry Larry is offline
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Re: Whitley Z6667 July 4th/5th 1941 Help needed.

I/NJG2 flying Ju88C-2 were active over the UK at that time but they made no claims for a Whitley or similar type on that date or early hours on 5th July and didn't suffer a loss either.

I presume you have seen the entry in Bomber Command Losses Vol 7 which says the Whitley broke up in the air
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Old 7th January 2010, 16:43
APOLLO118 APOLLO118 is offline
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Re: Whitley Z6667 July 4th/5th 1941 Help needed.

Hi Larry, yes the official report states it broke up, But as said we always understood it was defo shot down, A While ago I Spoke to a guy who knew someone that saw tracer fire at each other, Also just found out yesterday :-The Nachtjagd war Diaries volume one by Boiten gives the following on page 45 on the night of 4-5 July 1941:
"...In all probability, concerns the loss of a 10 OTU Whitley, which reportedly crashed on fire just to the East of Abingdon, following an exchange of tracer fire, possibly with a Ju88"
Could this have been a claim by:-
Ofw. Heinz Strüning of 1./NJG 2 claimed a Wellington 10 Km east of Nothingham/ Bircham Newton at 1:50/ 1:57
But this guy I Would have thought about the differances between the Aircraft + Area was out, Another possability is friendly fire, Do you think at that time planes that were shot down by the enemy over Britain would tend to be covered up so as not to alarm people? Many thanks, Ian.
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Old 7th January 2010, 20:54
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Whitley Z6667 July 4th/5th 1941 Help needed.

Ian

This topic has been up for discussion before, possibly on TOCH, and the outcome then was that is was not at all impossible for Strüning to have shot down the Whitley, but there is of course no 100% proof.

With regard to Strüning identifying the Whitley as a Wellington I see no problems with that. Both were twin-engined, it was during the darkest period of the night (even if in summer) and neither Allied nor Axis pilots were any giants in aeroplane identities....

Cheers
Stig
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Old 8th January 2010, 12:32
dp_burke dp_burke is offline
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Re: Whitley Z6667 July 4th/5th 1941 Help needed.

Since a number of the crew members were members of the Royal Canadian Air Force you must contact the the Canadian Archives and request from them extracts from teh two mens service records. The extracts will be free, the full service record will will incur a charge. Ask for those four airmens records with emphasis on any reports of the crash and reasons for same:

The RCAF crew men are Adams, Stratton and Bartleman, if you don;t have their details you can get them from the CWGC website.

www.cwgc.org

The contact details for the Canadian Archives are here:
Personnel Records Unit,
Library and Archives Canada,
395 Wellington Street,
Ottawa,
ON K1A 0N3
Fax: (613) 947 8456

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-909.007-e.html

You must check out the link above as it contains their procedures. Will take a few weeks for the records but worth the wait useually.

Dennis
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