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  #1  
Old 6th December 2007, 01:26
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Do 17P, F6+HM shot down on 23th Nov. 1939

Good night to friends and all.
I am seeking more information about this recon Do 17 P, F6+HM flown by Uffz Arno Frankenberger, which was shot down by Hurricanes of 1 Squadron on 23rd November 1939 near Moiremont ( W of Verdun ). He shot one of them down with his forward Mg 17 gun. My questions are:
1- Which was the serial number of the plane?
2- Could someone give me the names of the rest of the crew?
3- It seems that Arno Frankenberger became a POW for a short time. I read he later resumed flying for Lufwaffe. Did he stayed with 4(F)./122 ? Did he survive WW2? Could someone add more about his post-POW activities?
4- There is ANY photo of the crash site? Or of this particular plane before being shot down? ( Which books? )
Thanks for all help and contribution
Yours
Adriano
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Old 6th December 2007, 12:02
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Peter Cornwell Peter Cornwell is offline
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Re: Do 17P, F6+HM shot down on 23th Nov. 1939

Adriano,

Serial number unknown to me but the crew was as follows:

4.(F)/122 Dornier Do17P. Both engines crippled in attacks by F/O C. D. Palmer of No.1 Squadron over Ecury-sur-Coole during photo-reconnaissance to Cambrai and forced-landed at Moiremont, north of Ste-Menehould 10.45 a.m. Also attacked by F/O J. I. Kilmartin and Sgt F.J. Soper. Uffz Klaus Ehlers baled out over Mairy-sur-Marne but fell dead. Uffz Alfred Röder also baled out and captured wounded in left leg, admitted to hospital in Châlons. Uffz Arno Frankenberger captured unhurt. Aircraft F6+HM a write-off.
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Old 6th December 2007, 15:38
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Do 17P, F6+HM shot down on 23th Nov. 1939

Hi Peter!
Thanks a lot for the full information on the crew of Uffz. Frankenberger and the places where they baled out. I tried to find more news to know IF Frankenberger really continued to fly as a recon-pilot, but did not find any high award to him ( DkiG ). Do not know if this information is true or noth. However his combat against the Hurricanes of 1 Squadron is well described on the book of W/C Paul Richey, DFC "Fighter Pilot".
Thanks for sharing your information with me. Very interesting!
Yours
Adriano
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Old 7th December 2007, 11:19
hanshauprich hanshauprich is offline
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Re: Do 17P, F6+HM shot down on 23th Nov. 1939

There are at minimum 3 picture from the crashside. One show the wereckage from the Do 17, one F/O Edgar "Cobber" Kain RNZAF, who shoot down the Do 17. Kain was the first Fighter Pilot who became an As with 5 confirmed kills, he died after an car accident(?) in June 1940.

The other pictures show Uffz. Grundling by interrogation with the Gendarmerie Nationale.

It looks like, that Uffz. Frankenberg shoot down F/O C.D. Palmer, who baled out from his stricken Hurricane L1924.
The crashplace from the Do 17 is at La Besace near Raucourt (Ardennes).

There is also an photo showing S/L P.J.H."Bull" Halahan, F/O P. Richie, F/L
P.R. Walker and Sgt. A.V. "Taffy" Clowes with an MG 15 from the Do 17(?) in front of their Quartier.

The phots must be held by "Etalissment cinematographique et photographique des Armees". I believe, that more then 3 photos excist!!

H.
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Old 7th December 2007, 14:43
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Do 17P, F6+HM shot down on 23th Nov. 1939

Hi Hans!
The photo of the Hurricane pilots with a Mg 15 I saw on the book of W/C Richie "Fighter Pilot".
The other photos seems quite familiar from an old book from Editions Heimdal ( France ): La Luftwaffe attaque à L´Ouest.
However, the information from the Gendarmerie Nationale was quite interesting...From where you took those information ( I mean, from which books? Could you put your sources here for me? This way I can try to find the books I do not have! ).
I will try to contact ECPA and ask them! Thanks for joining and answering! It was of great help to know there are more photos available...
Yours friendly
Adriano
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Old 8th December 2007, 10:30
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Re: Do 17P, F6+HM shot down on 23th Nov. 1939

Adriano,

"Did he stayed with 4(F)./122 ?"

According to the prisoner interrogation report ADI(K) 970/1940 it was established then that Frankenberger did return to the unit.

See http://www.luftwaffedata.co.uk/wiki/...._122_Nov_1939
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Old 8th December 2007, 11:47
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Re: Do 17P, F6+HM shot down on 23th Nov. 1939

Hans,

Sorry, but that is all nonsense. The aircraft you describe is not that queried by Adriano although shot down on the same day:

3.(F)/122 Dornier Do17P. Shot down by F/O E. J. Kain of No.73 Sqdn during photo-reconnaissance mission over Reims. Crash-landed ripping off starboard engine at Le Fond de Bériotte, La Besace, near Raucourt-et-Flaba 10.15 a.m. Oberfw Baptist Schlapp, Uffz Helmut-Heinz Gründling, and Uffz Alfred Molek captured wounded, admitted to hospital in Le Chesne. Aircraft fired by crew.

Also, the machine-gun being inspected by No. 1 Squadron pilots in the photo you mention came from their first victory in France on October 30, 1939:

2.(F)/123 Dornier Do17P. Shot down by P/O Mould of No.1 Squadron during photo-reconnaissance sortie south-west of Toul. Crashed and exploded at Traveron, north of Sauvigny 2.45 p.m. Hptmn Balduin von Normann und Audenhove (Staffelkapitän), Oberlt Hermann Heisterbergk, and Fw Friedrich Pfeuffer killed. Aircraft a write-off.

Finally, 'Pissy' Palmer was not flying L1924 (an aircraft never allocated to No. 1 Squadron) and 'Cobber' Kain did not die in a car accident, he was killed in a flying accident on June 7, 1940:

73 SQUADRON, ÉCHEMINES

Hurricane L1826. Stalled during series of flick rolls at 800 feet shortly after take-off for Le Mans; crashed and burned out 11.20 a.m. Flying Officer E. J. Kain thrown from the aircraft and killed. Aircraft TP*B a write-off.
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Old 8th December 2007, 12:38
hanshauprich hanshauprich is offline
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Re: Do 17P, F6+HM shot down on 23th Nov. 1939

Peter: Thanks for the information!! My info are over 25 years old and you see that over the years more and more correct detail came over!! The problem is also, that most edlery books have wrong informatons or even nonsence!!
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Old 8th December 2007, 14:06
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: Do 17P, F6+HM shot down on 23th Nov. 1939

Andy: Yes, it seems he did return to his own Squadron after being released, BUT I can find nothing about his posterior flights, or awards, or fate. Was he shot down AGAIN and become definitively a POW? Was he killed later on?
Peter: Fantastic information regarding the other two German Recon losses...and yes, sad loss that of Kober Cain..it reminds me of a similar accident with a famous French pilot of Normandie-Niemen, who crashed flying inverted with the Yak 9. Seems that the "security harnais or belt" broken..
Yours
Adriano
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